You honesty believe that "away fans" is [ithat [/iimportant a metric as to the contribution a club makes? More important than so many others where Catalans really does blow many heartland clubs out of the water? Factors like financial stability, corporate revenue, TV audiences, player development, quality of facilities and home support?

Reading some of the comments on here, "away fans" are the be-all and end-all. My point is that as far as any other club goes, a game against Toronto or Catalans should be an opportunity to engage the local community. If clubs are getting crap crowds against expansion clubs, it's because those clubs are either lazy at marketing, crap at marketing, or both.

Interestingly, we're still waiting for your "oh so simple" explaination as to how we generate the revenue to make the investment that will "make the heartlands strong". You seemed to scurry back to your hidey hole pretty quickly after being call out on that.

And well done on reverting to type with the chippy little insults. Bravo matey. At least you tried.

The trouble with the 14 year SL last time was the reduction in allowed quota players that went along with it.
More teams but a reduced player pool? Only in RL could that be seen as a sensible move. But all it really meant was that english born players could suddenly demand a premium price for their services regardless of their level of talent.

If there is to be an increase in clubs, then quotas need to be done away with. I know the arguments about how foreign players limit the opportunities for young british players, but I personally think the opposite is true as it means that young british players have to push themselves that much harder in order to force themselves into contention for places which means the players that breakthrough will be the best of the best which means the pool for the international team gets stronger, which means the home nation national teams can get stronger which means the international scene gets stronger.

Totally disagree.

For young players to improve, the most important thing is for them to have the opportunity to play and before the reduction in quota numbers, coupled with an increase in "home grown players needed in the first team squad (albeit under the relative safety no relegation), we began to see greater numbers of youngsters getting their chance.
Many, of course, dont quite make it but, the return of P/R will continue to see clubs too afraid to blood young players.
It's no coincidence that the likes of Wigan, Leeds and Saints, who many believe have the greatest number of youngsters coming through are also, pretty damn safe from ever facing relegation (we'll ignore the blip that Leeds had a couple of seasons ago).
Without yong players getting serious game time, we will continue to have a desperate shortage of quality British youngsters coming through.
Behind this of course is the need to prize kids away from their I phones and Play Stations and get them involved in the game.
You are right about needing top quality imports, instead of "also rans". However with the disparity in salary cap between the NRL and SL, this isn't going to happen in the foreseeable, apart from those in the twilight of their careers or those trying to get their careers back on track after injury etc.

Of course, to make it to the top, you need the best players around you but, not getting into a star studded team wont help anyone.

You could argue that the England team which went within one score of winning the World Cup was the product of the reduced quotas.

In any case, I think the quota issue is a bit of a dead one now. It mattered when our clubs still had the cash to lure lots of Kiwis and Aussies here. But our salary cap is now so far behind Down Under, that even squad fillers in Oz are on salaries which would put them in the top paid cohort over here. The only reason I think it's worthwhile maintaining quota restricvtions is because I hope we might see the salary cap rising sometime soon.

Under the current system, it's ridiculous to say that clubs are afraid to blood young players due to the threat of relegation. It's not a trap-door for the team coming bottom of SL, and even if a team finds themselves in the middle 8's due to bringing through younger players, they still have ample opportunity to regain their place.

To be honest, the OP was just stating what he'd read, and questioned the value of the original reduction in numbers and the reintroduction P&R. This rapidly changed into "assumptions" that Toronto, Toulouse and New York would be included in SL, and hey, that actually means that the current numbers in SL needs to reduce by 1, not increase.

I stand by my thoughts that new teams need to prove themselves on the field. This means that they should start off in Championship 1, where they can find their feet in the competition. To be fair, this is what Toronto have done, and if they do gain promotion at the end of 2018 via the 8's then fair enough.

What we should know before the season starts though (it would be good to know already, but this is RL after all), is what the position will be at the end of the season if there will be an increase in SL clubs for the next year. Top 5 in the middle 8's and the MPG between 6th and 7th? That would give Toronto and Toulouse ample opportunity to stake their claim.

Sorry but, whilst ever there has been the threat of relegation, in the old first division, Super League (in the earlier years) and especially now, clubs in jeopardy go for experience over youth EVERY time, which necessarily impacts on the opportunities for less experienced players.
Yes, there have to be certain numbers of "home grown" players in each squad but, come the horse trading towards the end of the season, either to avoid the middle 8 or, to qualify for it, there isn't a club in England or France that wont take the "tried & tested" option over youth, not one.
SL clubs do have ample opportunity to retain their top flight status but, take a look at the MPG squads and/or late season signings.
Every club so far, when it comes to the crunch, has tried to bring in some experience .
Of course, clubs have to manage their squads through the season and the kid's do get a few games but, the point is that, when it comes to the crunch, experience is ALWAYS trusted over youth.
Under the franchise system, there were more clubs willing to play their youngsters for more games and this did appear to bring a whole raft of new faces through, which can only be good for the game.
I'm not advocating getting rid of P/R, just stating fact.
Btw, it doesn't always work.

Simple one to fix. Do what football do, and stop clubs bringing in new players after a certain point in the season.

That lot sums you up. Of course I do. Me and many others look forward to the local derbies far more than any other game.

I love it when the Leeds and Cas fans turn up and the singing and banter begins. Stuff your sterile corporate idea or RL.

I'd rather go to a full post office road than London, Birmingham or Toronto.

I don't need RL to go to Toronto I can go there on holiday. But a warm evening watching us stuff Leeds or narrowly lose to Cas. That's what it all about to me, against Catalan or any other non grad club it's just porential points.

Problem with people like you is you've lost your RL soul.

Merry xmas

On the topic of the importance of "away fans".....a few years back I did a season long comparison of the gates at Leeds, Wigan and FC. Factoring in local derbies, as well as the visits of Catalans and London, the overall result was that at 15 quid a ticket, away fans were worth about 20 grand to the clubs per game, therefore London and Catalan were costing each club 40k in lost revenue. To put that into perspective for you....that's about 2% of the income the clubs get from the TV deal.
Furthermore, Clubs like the 3 named above "go hard" when marketing the games featuring London and Catalans as they UNDERSTAND that SL isn't a league where you're "entitled" to get revenue from anywhere, but a pro sports league where you reap what you sew.

I understand that you'd like Wakey v Castleford all day every day, but unfortunately, tradition and heritage don't pay the bills, SKY and other TV companies do......and whilst you're waiting to see 10k at PO Road, we need the TV companies and their audiences.

For wakefield, absolutely the metric is away fans. That’s what keeps them afloat

Regards

King James

From a club and business angle, what would you rather have???

500 Leigh fans,

or zero Toulouse fans. and maybe at a push 10 Catalan or Toronto fans

Or a million pounds in central funding from the improved broadcast deal, increased sponsorship opportunities, improved public image, more local interest among non-traditional fans, almost every League 1 club got their biggest crowd of the season against Toronto and York had their biggest crowd in decades but yeah WHAT ABOUT THE 500 AWAY FANS THOUGH!!!!!!!

Hmmm....

500 Leigh fans delivers at best 10k in revenue.....for one game where Leigh are the visitors. A superleague club costs somewhere between 4.5 million and 5 million a year to run......so your 10k is .00000022% of the turnover of the club AT BEST.
Catalans gives SKY 13+ TV games for a pittance and is icing on their cake when it comes to the cash they give the game....money by the way that is 36% of the clubs turnover AT WORST........
.....so to recap, you'd bin 36% of the incomeof a club for .00000022% of the income because of "away fans"



It is the responsibility of a club to fill their own ground and not be dependent on away fans........Wigan, Leeds, Hull and Wire don't rely on away fans, but piddling little clubs on 6k and under seem to think that having that extra 10k is more important that spreading the games reach...which explains why after 125 years they are piddling little clubs........

..as an aside, just had a link pop up on FB saying Bath are playing Wasps....pictures of the clubs jerseys with Dyson and Land Rover as sponsors.....I wonder if either of those international brands are concerned with the number of away fans travelling to The Rec. I see Leigh are sponsored by a UK courier Company franchise operation who file their accounts under the heading of "small business holding"....I bet they don't care for the number of away fans either

Gutters, you are dealing with an intellectually challenged person. You must remember that he is from Leigh after all.

Roy, you are wasting your time. Expansion lovers are all over the VT (Not that many of them I know, but they care about how our game can allegedly improve, rather than their own club





) Most folk who aren't bothered about the 'Planet Earth RFL project' don't bother commenting, as the usual 5 or 6 suspects will 'tell them off' !!



I miss Blackpool Borough.....left to rot by the RFL.

Not forgetting the usual 7 London Broncos fans.....what a joke of a club, eh CALL ME GOD !

The reality is we currently have 14 English clubs capable of a place in SL, 2 French and 1 Canadian. Now get Avignon in the Mix with New Jersey/NYC and we almost have the 2 x 10 Structure we need to grow into and from.
The uneducated Chorley rabble are holding our sport back

SL 1 & SL 2 sound like a good idea, until you think a little deeper.

Unless you have 2 conferences say, East & West, having SL1 and SL2 is effectively a re branding of SL and The Championship.
You would actually be cutting the top flight by 2 teams, not too wise really.

You could go for a much larger league of 16/18 clubs but just play each other once, either home or away , depending how the fixtures are drawn up and then have some kind of split/play off system.

who is 'holding it back' ? Us Chorley fans have NO say in the matter.....

Why are London Broncos 'a joke of a club?'. They have produced many quality players who have gone on to greater success with other SL clubs, despite having to cope with moving stadium every few years due to factors beyond their control. They enjoyed decent crowds for a good many of their years, even if the numbers have been down in more recent seasons. Their small band of supporters is passionate and don't deserve to be patronised for standing by their club. Finally, if your team faced a 400 mile round-trip for every away game I'm pretty sure that the number of fans folllowing them away would be severely tested.

Promotion and relegation between them would be essential, as would minimum player salary spend. The fundamental difference between what we have now is that all 20 would be FT and forced to spend a minimum of say £1.5m in tier 2 and £2m in tier 1 - that would make the gap too much for most championship clubs surviving on 1200 gates or less without a rich owner.
Licences would be 3 years and the objective would be to expand not stay still, allowing the clear platform for cashed up expansion or heartlands clubs to realise ambition whilst protecting a sound business from going PT in the Championships
Basically if Batley can show they have the ability and infrastructure to finance their ambition then the sport should encourage that, same with Montreal or Detroit

£10,000 is actually 0.22% of £4.5m. So, your statement around .000000022% is 100,000,000% wrong. I get what you're saying, but on the same basis, a crowd of 10,000 would only equate to 4.4% of the required income as well.

Looked at another way, 500 additional away fans means an additional 5% revenue from spectators, or closer to 10% if you're Salford, Hudderfield, Widnes or Wakefield.

It's easy to manipulate statistics...

It was just to annoy 'Call Me God'.

Therefore, you want to water down the quality of the top flight (SL1) to "prop up" the second tier (SL2)


What you want could be easily achieved now, just by spreading the Sky monies between more clubs.

The key is to find a way of getting more cash out of the sports primary sponsor and therein lies the million dollar question ??

As I said previously SL 1 & SL 2 cannot work, unless they are conferences, with some kind of play off system towards the end of the season.
RL is just so far behind Union or NRL that diluting the resources further, would just increase the "brain drain" either to Aus or Union.

The bald fact is that RL in it's present form, RL is just not attractive enough to generate the cash that it thinks it needs.
Perhaps we could expand into N. America, that might get a few more quid

Conferences are the way to grow the number of pro clubs. SL1/SL2 is just another name for what we have now. Clubs will be doing their damnedest to avoid playing in SL2 and the best players will naturally gravitate to SL1.

Have 1 top flight division and add to the league as and when clubs (both traditional and new) feel and can demonstrate they are ready. Have a lead in period so they can prepare. They key is the conferences have equal standing.

Fag packet structure - Start with 16 teams now, split into 2 conferences, home and away fixtures. Top and bottom half of each join up and form the second half of the season playing other once. Top half play for title, bottom half for a shield type trophy. Play off system at the end to suit.