similar size towns travelling similar distances to teams who are below them in the league.

And one team averages a significant number more.......do you not think that away support is generally a percentage of overall support??

i do. my point was that it unlikely that there were more fax fans at widnes, than wakey fans at salford, making salfords attendance even worse.

Not really. Both Salford and Widnes pulled in crowds higher than crowds from some superleague games last season when in NL1.

Probably only higher than London I would have thought?

Given the crowds the last 3 clubs to come up into SL attracted despite struggling in their first season you have to admit that Salford's has been very dissapointing and the fans are not justifying the readmission of the club at the moment.

ps Celtic's aren't much better but at least they can blame their newness.

I agree mate, 3000 is dire and indefensible, what if it had been on tv? 2000?

There is more to it at Salford to be fair. The fiasco with the stadium and an unpopular coach are not helping matters. Salford fans have seen it all before and many have had enough at the moment. If something positive was to happen regarding the stadium it would lift some of the gloom at the club but until then our crowds are only going to get worse.

London - 3,512
There is no argument....crowds in London are crap and something, even it involves press-ganging drunken australians needs to be done.
Celtic - 3,645.
Can't really argue given their team have been very poor all year. Let's hoe the Newport move works for them.
Salford - 4,427
Of all the crowds so far this season, including the falls at Wakey and the Bulls, this IMO is the most wotrrying for SL and the RFL. You can blame the Pringleman and the results, but unless they do something along the lines of the Huddersfield marketing push, I see them at the most risk come the 2011 process for 1012.

Wakey....down but not out. They need to get people back to hell view and sharpish as do the Bulls and Odslum...

Salfords crowds will never be as good as Wakey or Cas, IMO these are two of the potential good clubs if they get new stadiums. Averages of 10,000 are not outrageous for these two.

I disagree. It wasn't long ago that Wakey had similar or even worse crowds than Salford's. But their crowds are not acceptable for a SL club. They have a poor ground, but that doesn't make it acceptable. In fact, it makes it worse for them as they can't even fall back on their ground for a license.

Wakey's crowds have dropped by over 1,000 as well.

Next home game for Hull is Quins. 44 five figure crowds in a row in league matches could be under threat.

They still manages over 12k for the last home game of the season last year and they were worse off then......and that was 2k more than the Hull derby the following week

Leeds 15285
Wigan 14291
Hull FC 12994
St Helens 12014
Bradford 9974
Warrington 9164
Catalans 9137
Hull KR 8482
Hudd 7803
Castleford 7658
Wakefield 5842
Salford 4427
Celtic 3646
Quins 3512

I know people will rightly say that Saints should have good crowds given their success, but the gradual improvement in crowds since SL began is excellent given the hell hole we play in.

I think 14-15k average is achievable in the new stadium.

Only 2 teams have increased gates this year.

Saints are currently up 12% on last year and Catalan have added 9%.
Huddersfield are currently the same as last year.
HKR and Wigan are down 1%
Hull FC, Bradford, Warrington, Castleford and Quins are down 3%.
Leeds are down 11% and Wakefield are down 19%.

The last 2 are a concern. Leeds, because they are still looking good for another GF appearance and it is puzzling as to why they are down 1,750 a game. Still, with a healthy 5 didgit average, I am sure the problem can be rectified. They also have 2 "big" games coming up at Headingly....in Cas and Saints.
Wakefield on the other hand are a real worry. Over 1,100 down per game should be setting off alarm bells at the club, because if they were to miss out on play off footie this year and they are no nearer the stadium being built in 12 months time, then I believe they should be rightly nervous about to 2011 application process. They have 1 of their last 2 home games v Celtic as well, so their average may well drop even further.

Of the other teams, Quins and Salford really need to pull their fingers out. Whilst Quins have a nice stadium and a good youth set up, as well as ticking the "expansion" box, Salford must have bricks and mortar on site this time 12 months or they will, like Wakey, be looking nervously and the progress of tolouse and the likes of Widnes and Halifax.

Crowds are 2 points in the process, but bad crowds combined with bad stadiums could well prove fatal.

Our crowds arent down gutterfax, they are in fact up (by 159 currentley).

Leeds may be due to their main derby rivals being rubbish this year, and part of the southstand closed so no 20k+ attendances.
Wakey is a mystery, playing well, probably a playoff spot to boot and a good rivalry with cas and now bradford as well. Some serious marketing needed there. I'm very dissapointed with salford as well, a once great club. That said if saints were 13th we'd average 5-6k tops.

Take my figures from the ever reliable SLSTATS site and as such, you are correct to pull me up. Castleford are actually up 2%.....



Still, the main point of the post was that Salford and Wakey are the teams with the biggest worries at present.

Celtic will be given time and as much as it pains me to say it, but Quins will probably get another 3 years to increase crowds. Widnes will implode if they don't get in next time and therefore, if the leage is to remain at 14, then something (or someone) will have to give way. If crowds continue to fall (overall 2% this year so far), then I really can't see the existing 14 taking a hit on SKY revenue to expand to 16.

Wakefield will finish the regular season at over 6k finished last season at 7k.

Not a total disaster but not great.

I am not having a go (as a london fan, how could I), BUT

2009 2008 Change
5842 6,961 -19%

IS a disaster. Without turning this into a licence/stadium debate, this is yr1 and at the end of the first season, you may well finish 8th for the 3rd season in a row, have lost 20%+ on your gates and be no nearer a stadium than when you applied.
Not fatal, but not what I would call moving in the right direction either.

i think we are up this year by 2.5% .. not the same as last year

-19% at the moment, 2 decent attendances to come (1 against Hull KR who will bring loads

) and that should improve. It may be a disaster now but there are 2 more home games to come!

after kr come to your gaff you'll be up 19%

Not having a go but with one of your remaining games being celtic at home what makes you so sure that your average will increase? You do have kr at home as well who will bring a fair few but will they make up for the expected low turnout v celtic?

The game against Celtic has been hammered by Wakefield's marketting team over the last month. 10 pounds in and Diversity appearing (for the kids of course!)

I am confident of a 7k attendance.