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| Leigh had a stadium and weren't looking to move when the DW was built. It only makes sense because they're so close and after building a stadium at the same time.
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| Quote ="Sir Kevin Sinfield""I don’t believe there’s a club that can find the cost of a new stadium out of its own funding stream. You either need a spectacularly wealthy backer or a council that can achieve what several have for their clubs. All the new rugby league stadiums in the M62 corridor have been built by the council 100 per cent"
While it sounds like the developer has pulled a fast one to get permission to build on green belt land, I don't agree with the statement above. Didn't Warrington build and own their own stadium? I know Leeds own their own stadium, while it's not a new stadium, one stand is a new build, with two new stands to be built in the next couple of years.
If Wakefield can't afford a stadium that's fit for Super League, they can't afford to be in Super League and need to drop down to the Championship. At a time of cuts to councils funding and services they provide, demanding the council build them a stadium doesn't wash with me. Especially when there are two clubs in Wakefield both demanding the council build them a stadium but not willing to share, as Wigan, Huddersfield and Hull all do.'"
Well done Clown!
Neither club is demanding the council build them a stadium, both stadiums are supposed to be being provided by developers who have gained a significant planning advantage by promising to do so.
Although you are correct that Wigan, Huddersfield and Hull all share stadia, they do not do so with a direct rival, instead they play second fiddle to their much richer relatives from the world of football. All of them are poor relations in that partnership and get dictated to by the football clubs.
Do you honestly think that Hull would be happy to share a stadium with Hull KR? Wigan to share with Saints? If your mighty Leeds were in the same boat would they consider relocating to Bradford and sharing their stadium with no ability to generate non-matchday income from the facilities??
Your post is so far of the actual reality of the situation that you I suspect you may actually be Peter Box!!
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| If Roma/Lazio, AC/Inter, Jets /Giants can share I don't see why Wakey and Cas couldn't
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| Quote ="Willzay"
As for groundsharing, Wigan/Leigh don't, Hull/Hull KR don't, why should Wakey/Cas?'"
If Wakefield and/or Castleford can build their own stadium I think that would be great. What I don't agree with is chairman demanding the council build them one when it's not financially viable.
Wigan Warriors do share, they share with Wigan Athletic.
Hull FC share with Hull AFC.
Huddersfield Giants share with Huddersfield Town.
Halifax share with Halifax Town.
Salford share with Sale Sharks.
Leeds share with Yorkshire Carnegie and Yorkshire County cricket.
St Helens share with Liverpool reserves.
None of the other teams you mention, Hull kr, Wakey or Cas play out of modern stadiums.
The only club to play out of a modern council owned stadium without sharing is Leigh. If I was a Wigan council tax payer I'd be asking if my money had been well spent. (A quick wiki check shows they actually share with Man U reserves).
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| Quote ="Charlie Sheen"If Roma/Lazio, AC/Inter, Jets /Giants can share I don't see why Wakey and Cas couldn't'"
Whilst I agree there are examples of it happening, I'm not sure if any of them have had to move from their own home to that of their rivals in order to share. I also assume that they have some sort of joint ownership arrangement and one is not a tenant of the other and only has access to the stadium for playing on matchdays and no ability to generate income from the stadium. That is the situation that Wakefield would find themselves in if they moved into Castleford's stadium (which at this moment in time is no further on than Wakefield's anyway).
As I said before, if Leeds Rhinos were in a stadium that they could no longer operate from, and an option was to relocate to Bradford and play from their Stadium would you find that acceptable/reasonable??
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| Quote ="Sir Kevin Sinfield"If Wakefield and/or Castleford can build their own stadium I think that would be great. What I don't agree with is chairman demanding the council build them one when it's not financially viable.
Wigan Warriors do share, they share with Wigan Athletic.
Hull FC share with Hull AFC.
Huddersfield Giants share with Huddersfield Town.
Halifax share with Halifax Town.
Salford share with Sale Sharks.
None of the other teams you mention, Hull kr, Wakey or Cas play out of modern stadiums.
The only club to play out of a modern council owned stadium without sharing is Leigh. If I was a Wigan council tax payer I'd be asking if my money had been well spent. (A quick wiki check shows they actually share with Man U reserves).'"
Are the Loiners getting anything from the council for the new development? I think you may have a new avenue to vent this neocon anger if you have a look.
Trin are getting nothing from the council apart from an opportunity to be anchor tenants in a community stadium that private capital should be building in exchange for huge warehouses and (they hope) massive profit.
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| Leeds also share their stadium and are fully funding the development of it.
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| Quote ="Charlie Sheen"If Roma/Lazio, AC/Inter, Jets /Giants can share I don't see why Wakey and Cas couldn't'"
I'm sure Steve Gill will happily let Wakefield pay rent to play in the new stadium, seems there's supposedly only ~35 games left to be played at Wheldon Road before moving in.
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| Quote ="Gronk!"I'm sure Steve Gill will happily let Wakefield pay rent to play in the new stadium, seems there's supposedly only ~35 games left to be played at Wheldon Road before moving in.'"
Yes, it seems that perhaps this is the aim of WMDC as well, despite the fact that Castlefords "community stadium" will be owned by Castleford RLFC and the planned stadium at Newmarket is/was to be a Community Stadium, owned by a community trust for the benefit of the whole community and not just a cash cow for Wakefield Trinity.
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| Quote ="Sir Kevin Sinfield"Leeds also share their stadium and are fully funding the development of it.'"
well they are either selling green belt land or applying for grants from what i can see, both sound like council help.
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| Quote ="Gronk!"I'm sure Steve Gill will happily let Wakefield pay rent to play in the new stadium, seems there's supposedly only ~35 games left to be played at Wheldon Road before moving in.'"
This is really sad, there won't be many Trin fans that don't welcome Cas getting a new stadium (but there will be some). We just want a fair crack of the whip. We also want that huge fridge to give the people something.
the RL family eh??
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"Yes, it seems that perhaps this is the aim of WMDC as well, despite the fact that Castlefords "community stadium" will be owned by Castleford RLFC and the planned stadium at Newmarket is/was to be a Community Stadium, owned by a community trust for the benefit of the whole community and not just a cash cow for Wakefield Trinity.'"
still not so much as a shovel on site there yet, be surprised if cas are playing there this side of 2020 or 2025 or ever
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Quote ="Charlie Sheen"They have rubbish grounds by PL standards, but they're still relatively decent grounds. Everton are getting a new ground anyway.'"
Yes and it's going down swimmingly.....
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-me ... e-39419843
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Quote ="Charlie Sheen"They have rubbish grounds by PL standards, but they're still relatively decent grounds. Everton are getting a new ground anyway.'"
Yes and it's going down swimmingly.....
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-me ... e-39419843
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| Quote ="dull nickname"This is really sad, there won't be many Trin fans that don't welcome Cas getting a new stadium (but there will be some). We just want a fair crack of the whip. We also want that huge fridge to give the people something.
the RL family eh??'"
In an ideal world both teams would have been in new stadiums years ago but things went wrong along the way for both sides. If things can get sorted for both then that's the perfect situation.
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| Quote ="Gronk!"In an ideal world both teams would have been in new stadiums years ago but things went wrong along the way for both sides. If things can get sorted for both then that's the perfect situation.'"
I can't work this out, i agree, i wish all RL was played in 50k all singing and dancing stadiums to fanatic full houses.
"If things can get sorted for both then that's the perfect situation" what is the "perfect situation?
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| Quote ="dull nickname"well they are either selling green belt land or applying for grants from what i can see, both sound like council help.'"
Leeds are funding the South Stand out of their own cash.
The details of the RL North Stand/football stand arrangement has not been fully revealed at the moment. However it appears to be being financed by a PFI-esque arrangement, whereby Yorkshire and Leeds have a stand built for them (on their land) by a third party investment house. The third party then rents this building to the landowners (Leeds and YCCC) for a period of decades.
Not sure Leeds were too fussed about this structure but a way had to be found to keep the debt off YCCC's books which is what this achieves.
The involvement of Leeds City Council is unclear - it looks pretty likely that they have provided some guarantees and may have introduced the third party as it's similar to how PFI worked in terms of keeping debts off the books. But it's very unlikely they will be stumping up any cash.
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| Quote ="Sir Kevin Sinfield"If Wakefield and/or Castleford can build their own stadium I think that would be great. What I don't agree with is chairman demanding the council build them one when it's not financially viable.
Wigan Warriors do share, they share with Wigan Athletic.
Hull FC share with Hull AFC.
Huddersfield Giants share with Huddersfield Town.
Halifax share with Halifax Town.
Salford share with Sale Sharks.
Leeds share with Yorkshire Carnegie and Yorkshire County cricket.
St Helens share with Liverpool reserves.
None of the other teams you mention, Hull kr, Wakey or Cas play out of modern stadiums.
The only club to play out of a modern council owned stadium without sharing is Leigh. If I was a Wigan council tax payer I'd be asking if my money had been well spent. (A quick wiki check shows they actually share with Man U reserves).'"
How much do you think Wigan council tax payers payed towards the lsv stadium?
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| Quote ="Sir Kevin Sinfield"
The only club to play out of a modern council owned stadium without sharing is Leigh. If I was a Wigan council tax payer I'd be asking if my money had been well spent. (A quick wiki check shows they actually share with Man U reserves).'"
We don't actually share , Man Utd ( and formerly Blackburn Rovers reserves ) reserves rent the LSV
They were not originally any part of the deal to build it , Leigh RMI ( formerly Horwich RMI who's shareholders had bought Hilton Park ) were the partner tenants at the beginning
And also for your information Wigan council didn't put any money into the building of the LSV , it was all funded by private investment and grant funding , the council provided the land , which had already been earmarked for private development
HTH
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| Quote ="Sir Kevin Sinfield"If Wakefield and/or Castleford can build their own stadium I think that would be great. What I don't agree with is chairman demanding the council build them one when it's not financially viable.
Wigan Warriors do share, they share with Wigan Athletic.
Hull FC share with Hull AFC.
Huddersfield Giants share with Huddersfield Town.
Halifax share with Halifax Town.
Salford share with Sale Sharks.
Leeds share with Yorkshire Carnegie and Yorkshire County cricket.
St Helens share with Liverpool reserves.
None of the other teams you mention, Hull kr, Wakey or Cas play out of modern stadiums.
The only club to play out of a modern council owned stadium without sharing is Leigh. If I was a Wigan council tax payer I'd be asking if my money had been well spent. (A quick wiki check shows they actually share with Man U reserves).'"
For the umpteenth time this thread.... Wakey are =#FF0000[size=150NOT[/size asking the council for money.
The land was taken out of greenbelt under the condition that a new stadium would be constructed on the site, after a certain amount of warehousing was occupied.
Once the land was out of greenbelt, the developers submitted a further planning application without the stadium, that the council then approved.
We want:
1) To know why the council saw fit to sidestep the ruling of the secretary of state and allow the developer to circumvent the original plan
2) Them to enforce their own damn planning laws.
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| Quote ="GUBRATS"
And also for your information Wigan council didn't put any money into the building of the LSV , it was all funded by private investment and grant funding , the council provided the land , which had already been earmarked for private development
HTH'"
If Wigan council didn't put any money into the stadium, they must be some of the best negotiators around, as they now own the stadium. Perhaps they should lead the brexit negotiations.
Genuine question, who did you get a grant from?
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| Quote ="Sir Kevin Sinfield"If Wigan council didn't put any money into the stadium, they must be some of the best negotiators around, as they now own the stadium. Perhaps they should lead the brexit negotiations.
Genuine question, who did you get a grant from?'"
They don't actually own it , they underwrote the project initially and oversee the running of it via a trust and a stadium management co ( Im not 100% sure on the trust part , others will know more ) but they do own the land
It is/was all quite complicated with several grants and money from Greenbank development company
You have to remember we are talking about the whole site here , not just the stadium
Edit
Yes it seems they do own it , but they didn't provide any construction costs for the stadium
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| I am not a troll, do not have a deep hatred of Wakefield or have an axe to grind, but I'd like a grounded Wakefield fan i.e. not Vastman to answer the following questions in an impartial manner without looking at my username and thinking this is an attack on the club from a rival. I'd like educating please (there's a first for a Cas fan ) so I can have a full clear view of the full facts rather than what P.Box/WMDC have or haven't done over a set period. I think a lot of people in this thread are confused and suspicious as it's only a certain timeframe that Wakefield fans are wanting to bring up.
I'd like to to ask:
-Why do Wakefield not own Belle Vue? Who did they sell it to and when, and what happened to the money?
-There are rumours amongst some Castleford supporters that in the early 2000's Wakefield council helped Wakefield Trinity by either giving them money to buy Belle Vue, or buying back the ground on their behalf then leasing or selling it back at a much reduced rate. Is there any truth in this?
-Again, there are rumours when Wakefield council offered £X million to both clubs to work on building a new stadium together, Wakefield turned it down and wanted to go alone. Is this true?
-What proof is there that Castleford get special treatment from Peter Box and Wakefield Council? Neither club seems to be further ahead than the other. Supposing the retail units are built at J32 but the stadium isn't enforced mirroring the situation Newmarket, does that mean neither club is favoured and that the council simply don't prioritise sporting facilities?
-Why did Rodney Walker quit, what does he know about the stadium issues, he was one of the most vocal but seemed to walk away and now seems to be absolved of anything to do with this saga.
I have every sympathy with Wakefield Trinity, and despite the press releases I am doubtful Castleford will get a new ground....I have a flyer in my possession from 1996 distributed by Cas with info on the new ground to be built at Whitwood....that's 21 years ago! I still wish both clubs [iand[/i WMDC had worked together to explore the possibility of a shared stadium near Normanton because I'm damn sure it would have been built by now.
On a final note I find it frustrating when non league football clubs (Maidstone, AFC Telford, AFC Flyde), averaging no more than 2,000 can get new stadiums built, while Wakefield and Castleford averaging 5,000 ish and 8,000 ish can't.
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| Quote ="Hightown Tiger"I am not a troll, do not have a deep hatred of Wakefield or have an axe to grind, but I'd like a grounded Wakefield fan i.e. not Vastman to answer the following questions in an impartial manner without looking at my username and thinking this is an attack on the club from a rival. I'd like educating please (there's a first for a Cas fan
) so I can have a full clear view of the full facts rather than what P.Box/WMDC have or haven't done over a set period. I think a lot of people in this thread are confused and suspicious as it's only a certain timeframe that Wakefield fans are wanting to bring up.
I'd like to to ask:
-Why do Wakefield not own Belle Vue? Who did they sell it to and when, and what happened to the money?
-There are rumours amongst some Castleford supporters that in the early 2000's Wakefield council helped Wakefield Trinity by either giving them money to buy Belle Vue, or buying back the ground on their behalf then leasing or selling it back at a much reduced rate. Is there any truth in this?
-Again, there are rumours when Wakefield council offered £X million to both clubs to work on building a new stadium together, Wakefield turned it down and wanted to go alone. Is this true?
I have every sympathy with Wakefield Trinity, and despite the press releases I am doubtful Castleford will get a new ground....I have a flyer in my possession from 1996 distributed by Cas with info on the new ground to be built at Whitwood....that's 21 years ago! I still wish both clubs [iand[/i WMDC had worked together to explore the possibility of a shared stadium near Normanton because I'm damn sure it would have been built by now.
On a final note I find it frustrating when non league football clubs (Maidstone, AFC Telford, AFC Flyde), averaging no more than 2,000 can get new stadiums built, while Wakefield and Castleford averaging 5,000 ish and 8,000 ish can't.'"
To the best of my knowledge;
1. The stadium was sold to pay off existing debts and to help provide capital towards developing a new stadium
2. Wakefield council took control of the ground and rented it back to wakefield trinity and then sold it back to the club at a profit to the council
3. Several years ago Wakefield council offered both clubs £1m each to develop their own stadiums, this offer was then quickly withdrawn. In the past 20+ years there has never been meaningful discussion about the prospect of the clubs sharing and as such, neither have walked away from a shared deal
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| Quote ="Egg Banjo"To the best of my knowledge;
1. The stadium was sold to pay off existing debts and to help provide capital towards developing a new stadium
2. Wakefield council took control of the ground and rented it back to wakefield trinity and then sold it back to the club at a profit to the council
3. Several years ago Wakefield council offered both clubs £1m each to develop their own stadiums, this offer was then quickly withdrawn. In the past 20+ years there has never been meaningful discussion about the prospect of the clubs sharing and as such, neither have walked away from a shared deal'"
Thankyou.
Most Cas fans will disagree with me but even now I'd be willing to see Cas sit down with all parties, draw a line under everything that's happened and see if enough funding can be put together to build a shared stadium somewhere halfway between the two clubs.
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