Thing is, whilst that's the right idea, we will quickly find ourselves with only nine or so teams in SL, because the teams below are even worse.

and



Are exactly my thoughts as well. I am surprised P+R has so much of a popular vote.

As I posted earlier , the problem with P and R is the weakness of the clubs in the Championship , everybody pretty much agree's with that , so the answer is quite simple , improve the Championship , the problem is that without promotion you cannot improve the Championship

And the governing body are clueless in how to improve the Championship , as has been demonstrated by the lack of idea's they have shown

So there is no definate answer , you either have a crap system without it , or a crap system with it , and the majority of the clubs in both SL and the Championship play fairly meaningless friendlies for the majority of the season , a bit like RU used to have

I wonder how many years it will be until these sort of threads stop appearing. Automatic P&R is not coming back until there are enough teams so that we can run two full-time leagues. Deal with it.

Why ? if you promote 1 and relegate one, the number remains the same.
A heavier points deduction for going into admin is ok, but the RFL would need to put a rule in place before making such a decision.
Equally, you are toatally ignoring the wishes and aspirations of the lower league clubs.
Good to see your club on the up though

When those of us brought up to believe that sport is about equal competition between 2 teams are all dead



Hopefully a while yet then

To tell the truth I'm not too fussed anymore , I'd rather Leigh get to the NRC final than the Championship GF these days , more fun , without the frustration factor if you win it , the rest of the games are pretty meaningless IMO

Which could have been achieved if the top clubs at the time had thought about the game as a whole rather than themselves with the Murdoch money. Far too much was wasted on high salaried antipodean has beens and not enough developing the game as a whole.

People saying that teams would just be filled with average foreigners, but surely you could work P&R with a sense of 'providing young players' along with it.

Bottom of SL relegated, Championship winner promoted. But every 25 man squad in Super League is not allowed anymore than 5 overseas players (no silly exemptions e.g. Kolpak) If you're born in the UK or in your clubs nation e.g. Catalans then your obviously exempt but nobody else.

Every matchday 17 must feature 7 players under the age of 23 and at least 5 of which have to have come from you're academy?

I don't understand why people suggest automatic P&R, and then come up with stupid contrived ideas that not only would be much more contrived than the current system, but would also directly and negatively affect the nature of the sport and the league. The worst is when people suggest automatic P&R, but with the promoted team getting a 1-year amnesty. Come on, think about what you are posting. Surely if there is a need to bring in these contrived ideas, then that's an admittance that the system doesn't work? What is wrong with the current format, which provides all the benefits and none of the negatives?

I'm not suggesting an amnesty mate, if you're coming up expect go go straight back down if you're not good enough. I suggested atering EVERY teams squad so that P&R doesn't hinder youth development.

How many super league supporters that don't want P /R would if there team was in the championship?

No I know, I wasn't referring directly to you with that, it was just a general statement. The point is though that P&R inherently does hinder youth development. Trying to have a system of P&R tailored to youth development is just a complete contradiction and isn't ever going to work. Again, what is wrong with the current system, which does promote youth development effectively?

You are correct on this one, its either yearly P and R as we all know and love it ( the only concession is that the Championship GF should be earlier than the SL one by a couple of months as it used to be ) or a franchise system, everything else causes more problems than it solves

One final concession would be for the Championship club to be able to forfeight their promotion for a sizeable ' 400K ' cash alternative ( this money would not alter a strictly enforced Championship SC )

Thats about it really

I've checked every SL season where we had P&R. Ignoring SL5 and SL6 when there was no P&R, there were 6 seasons where the promoted club stayed up, and only 4 where they came bottom and were relegated.

P&R gives meaning to the second tier and provides a much more exciting time for the bottom end of the upper tier (whilst giving the relegated team hope of a swift return if they can turn things round and perform on the field).

The gulf between the cash SL clubs have compared to lower leagues will always mean that promoted clubs may struggle. Wakefield and Widnes both had to build largely new teams, and although they're not exactly blowing the opposition away, they're not bottom (someone has to be!) and have both won a couple of games this season.

Winning a lower league, whether by topping the table or winning a play-off series, should be rewarded with a promotion to a higher league. I'd be in favour of introducing minimum criteria for promotion, so long as these were easily and openly measurable, fair, and not changed to suit.

Lastly, the main reason touted for stopping P&R - the reckless spending of cash to tray and stave off relegation - is easily dealt with by some carefully thought out, and strictly administered rulings around what is, and what isn't, allowed after a certain stage of the season.

Why not?

Hull KR came up with P&R and we earned our right to stay in SL. If we'd have finished bottom that season we'd have gone down. So teams can make a fist of it and it will give the teams at the bottom of SL added incentive to perform.

Because the promoted club may well be worse than the relegated club.

Which is my club?

I agree with this play off, of course the SL team must select a team whose combined salary complies with the Championship rules and only has access to one overseas in the game.

And if Hull KR hadn't been promoted that year then they would have gone bust and probably now be playing in Championship 1, if at all.

Because the non SL clubs rely much more on their fan bases to finance their clubs than the SL clubs, and if those fans lose interest due to a apathy, then those clubs will struggle to build or even survive, as I am finding myself, I dont feel the same as I once did from a win or a loss, I would rather make the NRC final than the Championship GF, as it is more of a fun event without the frustration I would feel from winning the GF and seeing no promotion

....and offering promotion to a different league is the only way (if it's even a way) to remove that apathy?

If we had never had it, then it probably wouldnt be an issue, but as we did, it is, maybe in 25 years it wont be an issue

The problem with looking at historic performances of promoted clubs is that they were able to build/stabilise their team around not just the relegated team's cast-offs, but 5 or 6 reasonable Aussies (using any and all loopholes to bypass any rules the RFL had), who would generally be just enough to give them a chance to compete.

Add to that the peril 3 or 4 sides faced every season, meaning they too would rather not take the risk with young English players, and we have the situation we were in just a few years ago - SL awash with poor Aussies/Kiwis.

That route to quick on-field success is - thank god - disappearing as SL clubs across the board are finally focusing on youth and we are actually being helped by the fact that SL is becoming financially less attractive to NRL players.

In any event, the 'immunity from relegation' and P+R every two years instead of every year is remarkably similar to franchising, except franchising allows other criteria - which have previously been sacrificed on the altar of short-term survival/success - to be taken into account. The fact that the system is flawed or some clubs are just badly run doesn't change the essential common sense in franchising.

Says who? and as for playing in Championship 1, if it all. We've seen alot smaller clubs then Hull KR go bust and come back quite happily albeit in a lower division.