you really need to get over the idea of P&R. just let it go.

move with the times.

It has been suggested that by the RFL 'allowing' Widnes to apply simply ensured that there could be no legal comeback on the RFL. Part of putting an application in was to agree with the result and there could be no legal objection. If the RFL had refused to even let Widnes apply, some people have suggested this could have been grounds to challenge the whole process.

Back to the argument about why so many clubs are making losses and are in debt. I suppose you could argue thats its as simple as the clubs are spending too much money on players. Maybe there just isn't the income in the game to support the salary cap at its current level. No-one makes clubs spend the full amount, but obviously there is the desire to compete and hopefully attract more fans. The problem is that if the salary cap is lowered, RL becomes an even less attractive proposition than it is now (for players) and potentially we would lose more players to RU or even players chosing to be part time or stopping playing completely to have a 'normal' fulltime job. IMO the only thing that would stop the spending would be to bring back the % of income rule. Previously it was 50% income could be spent on players, why not lower it to 40% as now operates in the Championship. If the clubs themselves can't or won't curb their spending then obviously the RFL should make it impossible for clubs to 'overspend'.

Going slightly O/T, IMO there should be no single salary cap for all clubs, a club's salary cap should be 40% of their income. That way, it won't inhibit growth of clubs that can afford to spend a bit more. I know no clubs are in this position now, but if in a few years time, 2 or 3 clubs are raking the cash in, what would be the sense in holding them back from maybe bringing in top Aussies or maybe top RU players? Surely if the sport is going to grow then an artificially low cap is not going to help? As many people have said in the past, the salary cap brings bigger clubs down to the smaller clubs level, shouldn't it be the other way round - if you get what I mean.

just because there is a maximum SC doesnt mean a club has to spend it

widnes spent more than they could afford too in an all or nothing play to get into SL last time. this doomed strategy almost killed the club

6 months later and everything was supposed to be forgotten

any person that thought widnes shouldve been in SL last time is a lunatic

next time they are a shoe in

I'm not a widnes supporter. I just wanted you to clarify what financial debt Widnes were in when the licences were decided. but it would appear you don't know.

Why are you dragging this up? It's irrelevent. We've moved on, time you did the same. You're just arguing a nonsense point with yourself on a matter that has nothing to do with this thread.

In fact 2 weeks ago you were supporting our future inclusion.

You should also really stop getting so confused with fans that come to our defence, it may be hard for you to grasp but they're not all Widnes fans.... Though I know you're as thick as two short planks so i appreciate it may be difficult.

What a very strange creature you are.

why dont you just follow your own advice (bold)?






it looks like you really like responding to my posts

why would the debts of a club just out of administration be relevant?

clearly the fact they entered administration indicates a poorly managed club, and or lack of fans.

get someone to explain what administration means.

having debts wiped out by a new owner is not a sign of strength

Ok, I wasn't going to bite but I have.

You're contradicting yourself here, first you say that the club had poor management but then go on to say we have a new owner. If we were never going to get in last time but are a 'shoe in' next time, can you tell me why you think this? Because as a club not too much has changed off the field from the licence application, that's how strong Steve O made it off the field when he came on board.

Clearly you havent answered the question. Yet again. I asked a simple question. What finacial debts did Widnes have when the licences were decided?

Just stop feeding this friendless germ.

i did answer the question.

if oconner put his money in as loans, the debts would be the same as the club in administration.

as i said before, the fact the club was in administration is a bad thing.

bad.

since then wakey have failed to deliver on their promises.

widnes would be a stronger SL club than them

if wakey had the new ground i might not support their inclusion next time

of course a few years down the track the club have now shown they are financially stable.

that couldnt be shown last time could it

the logic seems to be :

poorly managed club almost goes broke in a do or die crack at SL.

new owner comes in who wipes the slate clean = Good result

Lesson : run your club into the ground, and then find someone rich to start of from scratch.

result

Quote ="dally messenger" poorly managed club almost goes broke in a do or die crack at SL. '" There is no evidence at all that this is what happened at Widnes, though. Widnes RL going bust had very little to do with SL or on-field activities. For example, Widnes Vikings "bought" £3m of clothes and paid for them via a bank in the netherland antilles. www.crainsmanchesterbusiness.co. ... 09984/1031

Quote ="dally messenger" poorly managed club almost goes broke in a do or die crack at SL. '" There is no evidence at all that this is what happened at Widnes, though. Widnes RL going bust had very little to do with SL or on-field activities. For example, Widnes Vikings "bought" £3m of clothes and paid for them via a bank in the netherland antilles. www.crainsmanchesterbusiness.co. ... 09984/1031

You mean the events of October 2007 ( you remember, winding up the club, sacking all the players and other staff, etc etc on the basis that promotion was needed to pay off the debts incurred in 2007 could only be paid off from the 2008 SL money) didn't happen?

No. That would be quite a silly thing to say. Did you read and understand the newspaper article I linked to?

The idea that Widnes went bust because they spent too much money on players is laughable. As is the idea that Barrow AFC and Chester City FC went into administration under the same chairman because they spent too money on players.

Quote ="JonM"There is no evidence at all that this is what happened at Widnes, though. Widnes RL going bust had very little to do with SL or on-field activities. For example, Widnes Vikings "bought" £3m of clothes and paid for them via a bank in the netherland antilles. www.crainsmanchesterbusiness.co. ... 09984/1031'" you should be a revisionist historian

Quote ="JonM"There is no evidence at all that this is what happened at Widnes, though. Widnes RL going bust had very little to do with SL or on-field activities. For example, Widnes Vikings "bought" £3m of clothes and paid for them via a bank in the netherland antilles. www.crainsmanchesterbusiness.co. ... 09984/1031'" you should be a revisionist historian

I'll be taking the evidence presented in court by HM Customs & the insolvency service a bit more seriously than anything you have to say...

can you make up another good excuse like the one above for why CC are in the poop? i like creative thinkers.

to me, if a RL club goes into administration after missing out on getting promoted into SL, id say they were poorly managed

but the world needs creative people like you

What have Wakey got to do with it?! You've stillnot answered my question, just admit you know little of the facts of what happened and move on!

The administration was a long term blessing in disguise for Widnes in my opinion. The old flatcappers were shipped out, and a new, forward thinking owner came on board, who wouldn't have previously. In 5 years time I think we'll be a much stronger club than we would have been if we'd got promoted in 2007 anyway.

so lets get more heartland clubs into administration then!

spend more than you have on getting into SL, if it fails, sweep under carpet, find new owner and start again.

the administration almost killed your club. you were lucky there was someone around to save your club otherwise you could have nothing

There were three separate bids for the club. It is very unlikely that we will never have an RL club in the town.

Administration would not be a good idea for any club without the bedrock of historical support of the game in its area.

As you say though, we were lucky to get a backer like Steve O’Connor. It is better than we could ever have wished for. He has not paid off debts with directors loans. All the money he has put in he has considered as a gift. So we had no debts at the time of our licence application and have no debts now.

Seriously, I know it's difficult but think before you post.

Backers like SOC are very rare and he wouldn't have been found if the club didn't go into admin, hence the blessing in disguise. We'd still have the same owners, directors etc. who were obviously not business men.

Don't be silly Dally it doesn't matter how many times Rugby League fails in Widnes. You clearly understand nothing.

Widnes Rugby League Club established in 1895, still here, never been away.

Rugby League in Widnes = failed 0 times.