Just because there are big union clubs doesn't make it any easier for rugby league to take off. I don't see how you have come to that conclusion? South Africa is a big market, but so is America. What's the difference?

Expansion plans should not be dropped for the sake of some rich backer in a random place saying they want a franchise. To me, it's pretty insulting that people think it is that easy to run a professional rugby league club that all they need is a wad of cash. There's more to professional sport than money.

nah i didnt say you are being hypocritical, just that your post was hypercritical.

i like to be positive myself.

.....that said, it does help to have a backer with deep pockets. Catalans & Quins are 2 "new" clubs that are propped up by backers......and Ian Lenegan isn't exactly on the breadline at Wigan either.
I reckon that between 10k and 12k average gates are needed to be self sufficient and there aren't that many clubs in SL running on that average at present.........so the money men with the dedication to keep on spending are vital to RL in the UK.....AT THE MOMENT!

Most definitely helps, you're right. But pockets are only so deep, and backers will not necessarily want a return, but want the club to be self-sufficient in the end. Catalans look likely they could achieve this one day. Quins don't. Catalans aren't exactly a new area either, there's been RL there for decades which is why they've found it easier to get interest unlike Quins and Crusaders.

You plonk a side in SA, a place where there's no interest in RL at this time, and you'll be throwing your money down the drain.

How can my post be hypercritical but not me? I'm the one that said it! FFS dally, you're really not helping yourself as usual! Which part of my post was hypercritical? I really don't think you have a clue what the word means. What does being positive have to do with being hypercritical or not?!

Hypo isnt the same as Hyper.

Though im sure hyper critical is two words

Yes, Just because Western Province (WP) and the Stormers franchise (of which WP owns part) Rugby are strong, it does not mean that Rugby League would necessarily take off in South Africa. However, given the large base of Rugby players in the Cape, a large percentage of whom do not get many opportunities to progress, Rugby League [icould[/i possibly get a good opportunity, if people are genuinely committed to forging links with the different local communities, and being inclusive to all social groups, developing the game. Genuine commitment and ties to a region are needed for any expansion attempt to be successful anywhere.

You asked how South Africa (or France) is different to America. I'd say the more relevant question is: how is it similar? The answer is, not very similar. Both have different history, different conditions. The game has been played in South Africa at different times over 50 years, but also has supplied players successfully to pro Aussie and English clubs. The Australan Kangaroos even played South Africa in tests here. America has not really done that, and is far less likely to. Firstly read the post on International forum on RLFANS [url=http://viewtopic.php?p=14429731#p14429731South African Rugby League - my post on the social/sporting landscape, and the opportunity there[/url

Consider these reply posts by on that thread by by bladder - a South African from Cape Town (his references to local areas there are quite specific):
[url=http://viewtopic.php?p=14432067#p14432067Bladder reply 1[/url
[url=http://report.php?f=43&p=14433311Bladder reply 2[/url

Now, I argued in the post on League Unlimited [url=http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/showpost.php?p=6622799&postcount=27Should South Africa's Southern Kings be offered an NRL/ESL franchise?[/url that going for Leighton Samuel's Rugby Union team and money has eventually provided Wales RL with a professional team that is competing reasonably well and attracting. If RFL not taken the opportunity, it would be unlikely that Wales RL would be near the state that it is now.



FWIW, getting back to the original point, I don't think Stade Francais has a genuine interest in participating in Super League or developing RL there. Owner Guazzini wants a new revenue stream and/or a better stadium.

You are indeed correct. My mistake. I just assumed he was doing his usual inconsistent spelling that I hadn't even noticed.
Spelling error from myself there, which I'll admit. From the context I was using the term in, it was clear I meant "hyp[io[/icrit" though.
But "hypercritical" is still one word.

Still, what does being positive have to do with being hyp[ier[/icritical?

hypercritical means being too critical.

me im positive.

unless you confused it with hypocritical, but you are too smart to do that.

There are a lot of rugby players in the south of England as well, but they're not all lining up to play for the Quins. But there is a scope (just like anywhere really). There needs to be A LOT of work done before just plonking an NRL or SL team in there, otherwise there will be next to no interest and it won't last long..


I never compared France to anyone. I compared SA and USA. If you compare pretty much any country, they are always going to have different histories and conditions, etc. We aren't looking for exact replicas here, just the similarities (otherwise you couldn't compare anything). The similarities are that both countries have a dominant handling code of football that aren't rugby league, but these codes have transferable skills. That's why I question why SA would be anymore successful than USA.


SL got incredibily lucky that someone was willing to take over Crusaders. The jury is still out on whether they are successful or not (their crowds and performances are slipping) but they are a darn sight better than Bridgend. It is not a model that is worth copying. Bridgend could have gone bust mid-season the way that place was run, and there is no guarantee that someone will take over. If they do perish, that is a lot of TV money that could have been spent on establishing league somewhere else. It isn't just the rich backers money we're using.


If they want to, that is their decision.. I wouldn't object to it. What I would object to is dropping everything just to let them in because they're from Paris.

tut tut, it looks like you did mean hypocritical instead of hypercritical

dont you have some fancy degree or something from a uni?

oh my.

We ignoring posts with difficult questions still, dally?

thats your reply?




at least you know now the difference b/ween hypo and hyper critical.

Didn't see this post.

You do realise that criticism isn't always negative? You can be too critical with your positive criticism (even if it has a negative outcome overall). So you being "positive" (which is a joke anyway as I can show you a fair few "negative" posts about certain SL clubs/players, the AFL, etc.) has nothing to do with being hypERcritical.

I may be bad at spelling it times, but I do understand the words, Dally. Here you have clearly shown you do not. But at least you tried to understand, which is a start.

What's your version of hypOcritical then, whilst we're at it? And does you being "positive" stop you from that too?

I live by that Wellsey!
People always say im moaning, i aint! I just think things could always be better.
That's about what this thread's degraded to.. right?

Well I did keep trying to get him to answer the question regarding why he would drop all SL expansion plans for Stade Francais but not all NRL expansion plans for a South African franchise (hyperthetically speaking) but he wouldn't answer, using my spelling error as a cop out.

Oh, and Dally: I have intentionally spelled hyperthetically wrong. I know it's an "o"

...tell me about it. One of his now retired keyboard warrior mates on the NRL boards spent about 2 weeks referring to my gramatical errors when unable to reply to the point raised......it is a sign that you have won the point and the other person has no relevant comeback.

I have oftenwondered about Safrica as a potential League target....the way they play Union would point to them enjoying contact and they have produced some pretty good players over the years that wouldn't have looked out of place in the 13 man code.

There is a social/economic divide in the country that would maybe make it hard for poorer areas to accept anything with the name Rugby in it, but soccer (as it always does) has managed to grow significantly there over the last 20 years.....Maybe an exhibition series played there might be a good thing, or even the WCC Final.......?

If you're going to pick other people up on spelling, Dally, you could have at least spelled the name of Stade Français correctly when you started the thread.

i actually knew he meant hypocritical.

but it was just so funny stringing him along and hypercritical does have a meaning.

so when he asked me if i knew what it meant, i gave him the correct meaning.

i hope he reads those last 2 pages again, then hell understand how much amusement he gave me

FMD.

the "positive" thing was a joke at you using the term hypercritical.

clearly you dont know what hypercritical means.

I love it how a lot of people in this thread have stated there is no Rugby League played in Paris. Same old story, just repeat what the unionites say and it becomes gospel. LER 2 has Corbeil XIII playing, they won the comp last year but decided to stay in the LER 2 instead of moving up. List of Teams playing in the Championship Federal Pool 1 LOT CAHORS RUGBY XIII CLAIRAC XIII THE REOLE XIII LE MAS D'AGENAIS XIII LESTELLE XIII ETS Livrade US TRENTELS XIII NANTES Pool 2 Aussillon MAZAMET Gratentour XIII ARIEGE PAMIERS XIII PYRENEES RAMONVILLE XIII ST JUERY XIII XIII OLYMPIC ST PIERRE VALDERIES TOWNSHIP OF ALBI Villefranche XIII Pool 3 SENIOR RUGBY XIII CHATILLON DE SEINE CHARENTON PARIS XIII MONTGERON XIII Nanterre CLOS TORREAU Pool 4 ANSE STATEMENT OF THE OVAL COUNTRY Arbresle CAUMONT XIII WHITE HORSE XIII Mably Roanne XIII 2 SALON XIII SAINT MARTIN DE Craux VAULX EN VELIN XIII VEDENE XIII Pool 5 RL BEZIERS XIII CLAIRE XIII US FERRALAISE HOMPS MINERVOIS ITY XIII THE XIII BARCARES LE SOLER Opoul XIII PORT VENDRES ST LAURENT XIII ST PAUL XIII FENOUILLEDES VAL DE Dagne www.rugbyforumxiii.com/forum/vie ... 9e1f33ebf9 Have a read and see for yourself that RL is actually played there and if a team was to step up in the future (5-8 years), they have teams already in place that could help feed juniors into the side once it was established as it has roots already even though they mightn't be very strong, they do have them.

I love it how a lot of people in this thread have stated there is no Rugby League played in Paris. Same old story, just repeat what the unionites say and it becomes gospel. LER 2 has Corbeil XIII playing, they won the comp last year but decided to stay in the LER 2 instead of moving up. List of Teams playing in the Championship Federal Pool 1 LOT CAHORS RUGBY XIII CLAIRAC XIII THE REOLE XIII LE MAS D'AGENAIS XIII LESTELLE XIII ETS Livrade US TRENTELS XIII NANTES Pool 2 Aussillon MAZAMET Gratentour XIII ARIEGE PAMIERS XIII PYRENEES RAMONVILLE XIII ST JUERY XIII XIII OLYMPIC ST PIERRE VALDERIES TOWNSHIP OF ALBI Villefranche XIII Pool 3 SENIOR RUGBY XIII CHATILLON DE SEINE CHARENTON PARIS XIII MONTGERON XIII Nanterre CLOS TORREAU Pool 4 ANSE STATEMENT OF THE OVAL COUNTRY Arbresle CAUMONT XIII WHITE HORSE XIII Mably Roanne XIII 2 SALON XIII SAINT MARTIN DE Craux VAULX EN VELIN XIII VEDENE XIII Pool 5 RL BEZIERS XIII CLAIRE XIII US FERRALAISE HOMPS MINERVOIS ITY XIII THE XIII BARCARES LE SOLER Opoul XIII PORT VENDRES ST LAURENT XIII ST PAUL XIII FENOUILLEDES VAL DE Dagne www.rugbyforumxiii.com/forum/vie ... 9e1f33ebf9 Have a read and see for yourself that RL is actually played there and if a team was to step up in the future (5-8 years), they have teams already in place that could help feed juniors into the side once it was established as it has roots already even though they mightn't be very strong, they do have them.

They can't just come into SL Sorry but they'll have to do it the hard way like Toulouse.

Not sure if this point has been posted about SF's possible bid

SF are obviously a union side but were going nowhere with pitiful crowds until entrepreneur Max Guazzini took over in 1992

Recently, they have won four French championships in seven years and due to their original marketing ideas are able to sell-out some one-off games at the 80,000-seat Stade de France

They have now all but changed their name to Paris and their Pink shirts are now copied all over the place

No rugby club in the world in any code are run like this outfit...........so look out if they do try league

Port64, yes they can get a crowd, but they can't get that crowd every week.

In their usual stadium that holds 12k, they haven't had 1 crowd over 9k in decades if ever.

But I do agree about the guys being able to sell games when they want to, very impressive.

RL needs people like this.

Their normal crowds other than these one offs at the Stade de France are pitiful though and can be as low as 5,000. Saracens have got decent gates too at Wembley which are way more than their average, granted though the tickets only cost a few quid and they have lost money on the games, but it still helps to grow the club and the game.

It really is good how Rugby Union teams and bodies can market events like this into being something special and out of the ordinary but I guess the masses of free positive publicity that Rugby Union gets helps a lot. Rugby League seems to be unique in that its major events like internationals, Challenge Cup semi finals and the Millenium Magic get much lower crowds than some minor events and certainly much lower than they should.