But then that's 4 games less in terms of income too. And THAT, imo, is where the main issue with the game in this country lays. There's no money in RL at any real level and this is because the RFL are too willing to give away the TV rights to the whole UK game for peanuts and have nothing in place to ensure that it isn't just SL games that get shown. If the TV deal included a requirement for games from below SL to be shown on a regular basis, it would help those clubs outside the top table as they'd get exposure as well as be able to get a better deal from sponsors because of that exposure. And thus more money comes into the game. More money means that clubs can be in a stronger position and so can actually push for the opportunity of promotion from their current league because at the moment, there's plenty of clubs for whom promotion would actually be a bad thing as their current revenue streams would not be able to support the additional expenditure required

Agreed the SL clubs get 4 games less money, but the remaining Championship clubs benefit from two more teams with big followings bringing crowds. We also get a more marketable Championship as half of it would be a standard previously only seen in SL (e.g Widnes, Leigh, Hull KR, London and Toronto), maybe enough to tempt someone to pay for TV rights for that division and bring more cash in that way.

I honestly don't know why the game is locked in to thinking that its most pressing issues could be solved, even in part, by cobbling together another, lesser competition to sell out of the sum of SL's lesser parts.

there as simply too many pro clubs and not enough pro quality players and money available to run this many prop clubs.

super l;league 14 clubs franchises. division one 10-12 clubs (franchise). division two north and south, more development based clubs dual reg from super league clubs (Feeder clubs) any clubs not producing the goods on and off the field regardless of history or location, your out or drop down a division full stop. each super league club should be averaging 8k absolute minimum and if your not your franchise is under threat. league one 2k min. in the NFL they simply move your franchise or bring in a new club if there is not the support there.
time for RL to be harsh the last 20 years of swapping and changing formats and pussy footing around unsustainable clubs as to go.

Some people genuinely think that we could have two completely full time leagues of 10 teams with Sky showing both if we called them Super League and Super League II. That definitely wouldn't just be giving the Championship a new name.

So does this mean you are happy with the composition of league 1 and how it works.
There are some "serious" RL clubs mixed with glorified "university" teams.
Hemel are a "Northern" team masquerading something else and then we've had Toronto demolishing all before them.
Dont confuse my opinion with being negative and allow the fools that cam up with the idea to get off the hook.

In SL we have clubs without academies, Cas demolishing all before them, Widnes masquerading as a SL club and a club which will very soon be without a stadium to play at. All tiers of our comp are far from perfect.

Toronto will be in the Championship next year, taking advantage of the 2 up 2 down that exists between the two. Hemel have made some really poor decisions regarding their base, but prior to that were doing alright. The All Golds have exposed RL to the South West and provide some sort of pathway to the pro ranks (however small) from that region. Toulouse used it as a springboard last season.

You referred to it as a "Graveyard". If that's not negative, then what is? It could also be described as a "Birthplace", a place where ambitious new clubs can find their feet and grow, or a place where clubs have fallen on hard times have an environment to rebuild.

Clubs are also not "cast into the wilderness" as you put it. It's 2 up, 2 down. The "wilderness" would surely be seeing clubs fall from the pro ranks altogether?

You also by referring to some of the clubs as "serious", insinuating others aren't serious, again another negative remark towards the clubs.

All in all pretty negative I'd say.

Its crazy, its like they truly believe that because we are struggling to create the good competition tv companies want, 2 crappy ones will do instead.

Its a servant serving too many masters. Toulouse didnt get anything out of pummelling teams for a few months, neither have Toronto, barring another meltdown Bradford will probably walk it next year too. Its barely even a competition.

Its not serving the expansion clubs because they can't use it to create a player pool. They just wouldnt compete. It doesnt serve the heartland clubs because half their games arent contests and so far they are being left behind by a club operating on a completely different level.

There should be an incubator for expansion clubs, but that has to be its focus and priority. With rules and a structure which promote, benefit, nurture and reward clubs for doing the things that type of club needs to do to be sustainable and grow.

That would put an end to every single league 1 club apart from Toronto (who won't be a league 1 club anyway come 201icon_cool.gif. I agree, something has to be done, and certain expansion clubs just don't seem to be working in terms of attendances (likewise some established heartland clubs), but I'm not sure chucking out 15 teams is the right answer.


Regular Season Average Attendances:

Toronto 6639

Newcastle 979

York 883

Barrow 785

Keighley 742

Whitehaven 664

Workington 654

Doncaster 577

London 471

Hunslet 421

Coventry 401

North Wales 377

South Wales 229

Gloucester 205

Oxford 156*

Hemel 117



(*Oxford didn't give the attendance for the home match vs Newcastle, so had to take an average from their other home matches).

Yes, there are 2 promotion spots.
Although with Toronto coming in this season, spending SL type cash on their squad, this effectively is cut to one place this season.
The point I was trying to make was that, there are too many clubs in that league that are at opposite ends of the RL spectrum.
Having clubs like Barrow, Keighley etc, playing against glorified University teams doesn't sit well with me, it's damaging them and threatening their existence but, if you like it, great, knock yourself out.
Personally, I think it needs addressing and we should find a better way of preparing new clubs for semi pro competition.
And using the phrase "cast into the wilderness" I would say is pretty fair.
Have you seen the attendance figures ?

Also, York's new stadium should have happened by now and maybe they would not have been forced to the brink. - is this fact or being negative ?

When i said league one i was referring to championship, ie super league, league one (championship) league 2 north south. some of those figures are despicable and the clubs are surviving totally on hand out from central funds and generous benefactors. leas than 1k at any level is not sustainable for even a semi pro comp.

I think it's worked quite well for Toronto personally. Most of their fans have absolutely no idea about rugby league at all so they're not particularly bothered that they're playing Whitehaven instead of Wigan. They're just going for the spectacle at the minute, which I think works better with the team winning every week and scoring loads of points. The fact that their crowds have gone up slightly as the season has gone on shows that the people going don't really care that none of the games are much of a contest. The fans will start to appreciate the increased level of competition as they're exposed to the game more which will also coincide with their games becoming more competitive.

It would have been a disaster to just throw them straight into Super League and expect people from Toronto to turn up in numbers each week to watch a sport they know nothing about and their team to mostly lose quite comfortably.

Interesting that the two clubs with the highest attendance in League 1 are both expansion clubs.

Credit to Newcastle to average over double Hunslet, a team with a tremendous amount of history. Hosting magic weekend certainly looks to have boosted the profile of the game up there with some amateur clubs also thriving. Why move magic weekend elsewhere?

How much was Newcastle's inflated by Magic Weekend though?

i can't agree, i think people would be much more interested in actual contests. People may not be all that familiar with RL, but nor are they stupid. I think its obvious and most are well aware of the standard of competition that they are in.

I think you are working backwards from Toronto's success and putting it down to them being at a low standard. Lets be honest here, Toronto have played a total of 7 home games, how would fans have learnt about these walkovers to be attracted by them? Their success is entirely down to the effort in sales, marketing and PR that the club have made and it is important that we recognise that because it is failings in these areas that effect nearly all clubs, not that they arent putting 80pts on the opposition every week.

Newcastle have put some good work in, althugh I have a feeling their attendances are down a bit on 2016 - it takes a long time to trawl through the attendances but I'll work out 2016 at some point.

Excluding Toronto's home matches, the highest attendance of the season so far is 2,111 on the millenium magic weekend for Newcastle against York. Again though I believe that is down on the same fixture in 2016.

Next highest attendance (excluding Toronto's home matches again) was 1,524 for London Skolars vs Toronto - this was the latters first league match.

I expect York to beat both these attendances this weekend, and should end the season as 2nd highest average. Crowds have gone up 49% at York (by the end of the season,expect it to be a 70% increase), in part because of the new regime who have stabilised things, but also the entertaining rugby which I genuinely think mirrors the Cas style of play in 2014+2015, and also allowing all under 16s in for free - I don't know of any other clubs who do this?

Some of the averages though are pitiful. Hemel for example have had just 820 through the gates this season for their 7 matches....take away comp tickets (players partners, relatives etc) and away support and they are probably getting 75 paying home supporters a match. I think there is potential at Coventry and North Wales Crusaders to grow further so not all hope is lost just yet.

I wouldn't place too much stock in the stated attendances at that level. In my experience they are inflated even to the poor numbers they state, so you are likely just comparing who inflated theirs the most rather than actual attendances.

Keighley have been doing this for 3 years

Hats off to York City Knights who today humbled Toronto 26 16.

Wish I'd put a tenner on that.

2,602 there to see a well deserved York win. A fantastic achievement to say York had no pre season, and weren't even in the initial league 1 fixtures. This time last year they even had to postpone their first match of the super 8s due to off field problems.

Toronto will still get promotion and will deserve it and I am one of those who think they are good for the game, but it's good to go down in the history books as being the first league team to defeat them.

One last point - it shows what can be done if you rise to the challenge on and off the pitch, create a buzz about the fixture, promote the hell out of it then do the job on the pitch. Here's hoping Workkngton and Keighley can put in a similar effort and pack them in!

Amazing by York!!!! Probably Toronto's only loss this year I bet. Great achievement.

Call me a simpleton but I think a clear cut simple system is the way forward. It's hard enough getting new faces to understand the rules to the game let alone a complex structure. I work in a county that doesn't have a pro RL club and when I try to explain to them how we win competitions and the structure they find it very hard to understand at first viewing which probably eliminates any interest before they have given it a good go.

Whatever structures you go with it's going to need time to grow and to allow player pools to expand. Chopping and changing isn't the answer, put a structure in place and allow it to grow.

I would personally go with.

14 team Super League - 27 games each (home and away plus magic weekend) bottom two go down and top 4 compete in play offs. Make it compulsory that all teams have a reserve and academy set up. Stadium Capacity must be at least 8000.

14 team Championship - 27 games (home and away plus summer bash) Make it compulsory to have at least a U18s set up and a permanent home base/long lease with min capacity 5000. Top automatically goes up and 2 to 5 to compete in play offs for second promotion spot. Bottom place to be relegated.

12 team League 1 22 games (home and away) Top gets promoted. Make it compulsory to have a permanent base with at least 3000 capacity. Bottom gets relegated should winners from the North & South fit criteria.

Setup a League 1 North & South for any future teams who wish to enter the pro leagues max to 10 teams each. Winners of either League to play each other in a grand final to gain promotion to League 1.

This structure could be made better I am sure but the guidelines let clubs know what is expected to move up the ranks. It also allows clubs to grow naturally. Some clubs will rise and others will fall, but that is the point of sport. This super 8s stuff is all confusing for the neutrals IMO.

why not 3x14 I think there a couple of clubs waiting in the wings to join C1.