Two of Kiwis tries came from errors by Graham - maybe you need to take those red fee glasses off

Absolutely bang on.
Very poor policing of the ruck by Hicks, the Kiwis were getting away with murder.

Ultimately the game could have been drawn
2 excellent positions to set up a drop goal, the first one blown by spilling possession (which should have been a warning) and then the Burgess through the legs forward pass, when we could have set up the DG.
NZ end f set plays certainly left us with heaps of defence and generally we coped well with that but, they just about deserved the win.

A drop goal would have been kicked though, did Gale even play?

The only time Gale was allowed any input in the game was when England were roughly on the half way line and he had to put the hanging kick up. everything was orchestrated through widdop which he didn't get everything right aand lead to us being very 1 dimensional . We had 2 golden opportunities to draw the game but utterly shambolic game management cost us. We could have easily lived to fight another day but got what a deserved.

Again as I've witnessed for the best part of 40 years , we stood and admired rather than getting in their faces , at one point I thought they were going to start applauding them

That particularly applied to Johnson.

I think the gushing praise from the commentators was shared by some of our guys

Did I hear the commentator say something about Watkins being arguably the second best centre in the world, he isn't the second best centre in white.

Did Gale play?

Why did Sam think he could pull of tricks only Johnson could pull off. Just run forward let the playmakers do the tricks

I thought we played well, very well at times. A drop goal from one of the very best players in the world was the difference.

I don't know why everyone has to act like we've been hammered and try to find the faults in everything.

The truth is they ended sets better because they have the best short kicker of the ball I've ever seen play this sport and he was composed when taking the DG. We've probably not produced a better half back with the kicking game of Johnson in 121 years of this sport so calling for others (who are inferior players) to come in for Widdop and Gake and calling for new centres is just stupid!

Glad we've sorted this years scapegoat nice and early anyway!

On Watkins, he was no where near as bad as is being made out, I notice his defense isn't being questioned, thats because he kept his opposite number quiet. As has been said Watkins needs early ball or kate ball in space, it was also a bit criminal widdop passed to bateman with watkins in the clear at the end.

Overall it was a bit disappointing butee did lack direction, date I say it - we need a Sinfield type player in there!

The Red Vee glasses which had me suggesting Lomax should be dropped? Those ones? You do know Graham hasn't played for Saints for half a decade, right?

We won the second half though.

We may have lost the battle, but not the war.

Regards, salesman Kev.

thought we played well. Lacked composure at 2-3 critical times on last plays where we could have got something out of the game.


We dominated the kiwis for much of the game but they were expertly led on last plays and got more repeat sets than I've ever seen. All the defending from them probably reduced our composure at the end.

Yet again we have played well and come away with nothing though.

I do think yet again, our English refs decided to change the way they ref to please our international 'friends' . Kiwis got away with so much at the play the ball - in the last 10 when we were making quick yards we could easily have had a handful of penalties.

McGilvery saw the ball once in a decent position and scored, Hall saw the ball once in space and scored. On both occasions the centres were not in the move. Not sure that is a coincidence.

Widdop's kicking was spot on, as was his speculative flick to Hall. He tried but there didn't seem to be a lot of options when someone tried something. Thought Gale was relatively annomomous.

There is a query as to whether some people have actually trained together as players seemed to have to stop for the ball to arrive reducing their speed and impact on contact.

And how long did the Kiwis get to lie on the player every tackle. Whether it was different for us can't say but all seemed very slow at the play the ball.

Bateman and Gale were picked out from the get go, then they sniffed out Hodgson and Sarginson. In terms of our attack I thought it was like watching Hull under Agar. Would guess Betts has had too much to do with it.

Truth is we weren't that bad. We had all the vplay and ball in the first half hour and on another day we would have posted a couple of tries in that period and the game would have been different. We didn't but still should have taken a point from the game the game with a bit of savvy. People are talking as if we took a beating.

Its high time we got another win over the Aussies, what is it, a decade now? no better time than in two weeks. Iron a few things out, blitz Scotland and we i'm confident we will give it a good go.

I would drop Widdop not enough creativity and just passes the ball on most of the time. Bateman also, seems to enjoy the contact to make into a wrestling game not enough punch and dynamic. Lomax not got the experience at this level but I,m not sure if Ratchford would be a better replacement. For me throw Williams or Brown in at 6, running or kicking plays would increase pressure.

The Kiwis didn't just win by a drop goal. They scored three tries to two.

Only four players stood out for England: the two wingers and the two hookers.

Three tries to two. Enough said.

Every England player who doesn't play for my club side were rubbish.

Every England player from my club side stood up and played well.

I will not have any of the England players who play for my club side scapegoated either.

Oh, and if there had been several more players from my club who had been selected, England would [i'of'[/i won.

And finally... the ref was crap and favoured the Kiwis who were allowed to lie on in the tackle all game, mess about at the PTB and get away with it for 80 minutes.

Apart from that... England dominated because they have the best pack of forwards in the world.

Yep.

Widdop to full back, Williams to five eighth, Lomax to the centres. That will make a huge difference.

BTW has Paul Sculthorpe got some official position in the England set-up?

Sarginson was the worst player on the pitch by a country mile, Bateman started off ok but was soon found wanting at international level, Watkins looked too disinterested.
I think the loss of Ferres didn't help and I'd have given houghton a chance at this level

Yeah but the Johnson intercept was an absolute gift from Widdop.

Nothing in it mate, one point. Johnson the difference, fair play to him a great player and he stood up like great players do in these games. Unfortunately we don't have a game breaker close to him.

As for the thread starter, please continue to watch a game with just the one eye open.

That's what the vast majority of RL fans do.

After all, there was only one team playing this afternoon.

Anyone else care to assess the Kiwi performance player by player?

No?

Thought not.

Marks out of 10...

[uENGLAND[/u
Lomax 6
McGillvary 8
Watkins 4
Sarginson 5
Hall 6
Widdop 7
Gale 6
Hill 7
Hodgson 7
Graham 7
Bateman 6
Whitehead 6
S. Burgess 6

T. Burgess 6
G. Burgess 5
Cooper 5
Clark 5

Total = 102

[uNEW ZEALAND[/u
Kahu 7
Nightingale 6
Kata 6
Kenny-Dowall 5
Rapana 8
Leuluai 6
Johnson 8
Bromwich 6
Luke 7
Waerea-Hargreaves 5
Proctor 6
Harris 6
Taumalolo 7

Brown 6
Taupau 8
Ma'u 7
Blair 6

Total = 110

As a Saints fan id drop Lomax. There is no excuse for that attempted tackle. There are under 10s who would have completed that tackle and in offence someone needs to tell him that running in the direction of the touch judge isn't really what we need. Sarginson is another. Absolutely woeful. I don't think I've ever seen a poorer effort ever. Get him stacking shelves because he isn't a rugby league player. everyone else can at least hold their heads up bar Watkins. I know the Leeds fans think he's the best super league centre since Jamie Lyon but the reality is he is average (if that) at best as was shown today

Regards

King James