In about February I tried to get tickets to any of the NFL games in London this season. Within a couple of mins the 3 games in 80k+ stadiums were sold out. (at a ticket price of about 4x that of a RL international, in stadiums 4 times the size of what we are trying to sell international RL).

That is for a sport not even native to this country, with no home teams playing.

Maybe I judge success in different ways, but why are we not seeing that level of interest? How many internationals do we have this season, is it 4 with the possibility of 5? So we can sell out 3 games of a foreign sport with no home teams playing, in 80k+ stadiums 7 months in advance at extortionate ticket prices, but we are struggling to sell 4 games with an England international team in significantly smaller stadiums.

I'm going with RL being the best viewing sport on the planet.
The hardest physical game, played by the worlds best all round athletes.

The fact that the games administrators have been mickey poor at selling the game is no reason to go over to the Dark Side.

Lets just remember that Union has the full and total backing of the media and on the back of the 6N, the International scene is very strong and everything else rides on the back of that.

Their game is as dull as dishwater to watch (in the northern hemisphere) and I would rather take up fishing that watch their Aviva Premiership stuff and for those of you advocating watching it, give your collective heads a shake.

Since day one RL has had to fight for all that it has and whilst we could plunder the Union ranks for players in the 80's (before Union came clean and admitted to paying players), now, we have to work harder to produce our own players.

I've said many, many times that our game needs a plan for the next 5,10,20 years instead of looking for quick fixes and gimmicks.

The game has to help other nations embrace the sport but, whether including clubs from other countries into SL is the right idea, I dont know.
Certainly, Canada is too far geographically to be a regular spot for the weekly rounds. although if Toronto can be the springboard for establishing some domestic competition over there, it would be worth while.

On the home front, there needs to be some help.
There is little doubt that the game can be bigger than it currently is and maybe it's time to re visit the Cumbrian region.
Although not densely populated, there is interest in the region and thought should be given on the best way to increase interest.

Also, should the French be working harder to increase the number of full time clubs with a view to having their own SL (or equivalent), which would provide
England with some proper competition.

There is no magic wand and everything takes time but, the game is just drifting along, massively undersold by the people in charge, which is probably the main reason that the game is in such poor shape.

So thats it then?are we all done?merger it is back to uncle union.Weve gone through 2 world wars 3 centuries and we just roll over like a lovable old labrador

If you could construct a proper sentence or paragraph we might then be in with a chance of understanding WTF you are ranting about.

I take it you are no longer a RL fan then ? If so, please take your negativity to Association Football or fishing, whatever it is that does float your boat.

Spot on.

Some people have an incredible sense of self importance that if they've fallen out of love with the game then it must surely be about to die.

Haven't people been saying it for decades? It's nothing more than the age old thing of "it was better back in my day". I guarantee that whatever decade posters on here started first watching they'll have been fans who'd been going for decades telling them the game isn't what it use to be and stopped going otherwise attendances would've just always risen until you got to huge numbers.

There are undoubtedly issues (as with other I'd make it a requirement of SL teams to run proper Academies and Reserve teams) but on the whole the sport is in a hell of a better state now than it was in 1981 when I started watching.

Oh look, that's just as applicable to the most "successful" sport too.....

Like most things the answer is simple.

Employ an able ambitious CEO and give him TOTAL power for at least five years.

No need to sack those already there because experience counts, just let them know in no uncertain terms that the are subordinates and will be sacked if their own self interest comes before the game.
There is only ONE boss.

The clubs and especially the Chairman of the clubs be stripped of any say in the game because these men bring nothing but self interest to the table.

Fans on here shut the F up and just support the game. Oh and somebody gag Jamie Peacock.

If the RFL had this enviroment to work in over five years even a half decent one would work miracles, but it's sadly not the British way.

Sadly a lot of this comes down to finance and influence. We seem to struggle with both.

Premiership rugby union gets an 8pm slot on a Sunday evening, and yes I watch it.

The Super League show is on at some late hour on a Monday when we have moved on to the next match.

But the nagging doubt is whether we make the most of what we have got and the resources and personnel we have.

I think this is the key issue. I wonder sometimes if the RFL has adequate processes in place to maintain the level of efficiency and quality control needed to make the most of what RL does have.

I don't want to keep banging on about the organisation of the four nations, but they left it relatively late to announce the dates and venues and when they finally did some of the decisions were poorly thought out. They should have had a rough plan for the tournament before the even bid to host it, then from the moment they confirmed it they should have worked through established options to firm it up, that way they can get sensible times and dates. There is no real shortage of venues, it just needs good planning. The game in London should have been on a Saturday afternoon rather than a Sunday afternoon so it could be sold as an event. The double header in Coventry should have been timed differently to allow people to get the train home afterwards. There should have been somebody at the RFL doing a simple sense check, someone who thinks about the fundamental experience for the customer and asks "is this the optimal way in which to sell tickets given that we've struggled to sell the international game in recent years"? If the answer is no, then go back to the plan and fix it. It's not rocket science, it's just getting basics right first.

And it's not just the RFL, I think some of the clubs are little better. I take my son to the mini's section at the local amateur RU club and find they are better organised than some of the professional RL clubs I've had experience of.

The standard of rugby, facilities and climate that games are played in are much better these days and it makes you question why the sport’s growth remains fairly static. Personally I think for all the positive changes RL has made I believe it was a mistake dropping two knockout cup competitions all those years ago. Forget all this talk of players being fatigued, a good cup run was an easy way to reinvigorate local interest and gain new support. I understand the argument of players making too many appearances but isn’t this why teams have squads of 25 players? I have to question if this was just used as an excuse for continually failing to beat the Aussies rather than just admitting they're at a different level to us. Cup competitions are an opportunity to share out more success in the sport which ultimately is what attracts people to follow a club. More money, sponsorship, National TV exposure and local interest. It’s a no brainer for me because knock-out competitions are exciting and entertaining for the fans.

How can you expect anything from a game that encourages short-term success over long-term gain? Clubs basically gambling to stay in Super League. Sure, P&R was entertaining this year, but at what cost to Hull KR and Salford to a degree. What happens if Leigh go down the following year? Unfortunately, the cold harsh truth is that Super League needs to be a close shop for a good 10 years or so to get its house in order. Whether it's 10 or 14 clubs, I don't really care. Also, the game is crying out for England to win a meaningful competition or test series when it really matters. Hopefully this starts with the 4Nations...

Franchising wasn't all it was cracked up to be, though. It made the competition dull - bottom clubs thought they could just coast through the season with poor recruiting and bad coaching. Cas are a perfect example of this.

No matter what, people moan. The quality of the rugby, the set up, the governing body...moan moan moan. When we had franchising people said it sterilized the competition, when we did away with franchising people began to say it discourages long term planning which is ruining the game.

The game just doesn't have a lot of money. I sometimes wonder what people on here expect, when we have to negotiate sponsorship deals or what not it's going to be based on cold hard facts and figures. The average attendances are X, the primary audience is X..... 'we can't justify more than than x mount.' Most of the games you see on sky are played in front of 1/3 or half empty stadiums.

Relatively speaking tickets to events are peanuts. Look up the prices for the Four Nations. Furthermore people than want special offers and discount codes. In an era of an economic squeeze people can't be bothered to pay the meager prices to go to games because the entertainment just doesn't justify the extra money and effort to get there.

It is hilarious when people ask for discounts on international tickets. It's so funny it hurts to laugh.

This depressed rant is the kind of rubbish I hear from immigration officers at Manchester airport every time that I fly in.

There is a bright side. Toulouse is in the Championship and heading for Super League. Toronto Wolfpack is in League One and heading for Super League. Gregory Bird is signed with Catalans and heading for Super League. Things are finally looking up.

I think for the sport over here to progress England need to win this 4 nations series and stop being losers every time. Easier said than done but another gallant effort and hard luck story isn't going to cut it I'm afraid. It's decades now since we won an International tournament or series against the aussies. This has impacted negatively on the sport here and I can't see any change until we can somehow pull something out of the bag. I think this failure at International level doesn't just affect attendances, it's also sponsorship, TV revenue and more kids taking up the sport.

You could have the best CEO and marketeers in world sport but they will be limited to what they can offer if people always consider us an inferior rugby league nation with an inferior domestic competition

I couldn't agree more...what the game needs is some proper business expertise, an outsider with no vested interests, somebody who can get all involved on board, somebody who has proven experience at running a multi million or even billion pound business. As you say we need to give him (presumably it will be a him) TOTAL power...I say Donald Trump ! He'll also be available in a couple of weeks.

I couldn't agree more...what the game needs is some proper business expertise, an outsider with no vested interests, somebody who can get all involved on board, somebody who has proven experience at running a multi million or even billion pound business. As you say we need to give him (presumably it will be a him) TOTAL power...I say Donald Trump ! He'll also be available in a couple of weeks.

Key words you used "it was entertaining"....that what is should be and the franchise system didn't offer that. And it was a closed shop for several seasons, and it's because of that HKR after finishing 4th in 2009 just plodded along after that seemingly content to make up the numbers in the middle of the table and found themselves the first casualties of this new system because they had a "we'll be fine" attitude. HKR going down could be the best thing to happen in a while and I don't mean that as a dig to HKR fans, but clubs now hopefully wake up that they can't just plod along and be safe, they can't just plod along and still expect to have a shot at a playoff spot with several rounds remaining.

I think that's definitely a factor, I don't know if it's the major one though.

Firstly, and I know some people will decry this as paranoia, but there is a bias against RL. Now, I think in the past this was an active bias against RL by the Union types, there were active efforts to disrupt and hold back RL. Whilst that still occasionally happens, RL is now more affected by the general bias against anything outside London and the public school system. The media and the government are both run by the public school establishment who only ever endorse and push their pet causes and issues and sometimes actively, sometimes passively ignore causes that aren't relevant to them. Add in the centralisation of both politics and media in the last few decades and it's really hit RL.

Secondly, the obsession with the domestic game, here but especially in Australia, has been to the detriment on the game as a whole. The international game has suffered from neglect and little to no long term planning. This in turn has affected the games media and public profile.

Thirdly, the clubs flagrant disregard for investment and long term planning has massively hindered growth both nationally but also locally.

I don't think there is an active bias against RL by the establishment or whoever, there may have been at one point, but not now. Now there is no need to bother. The problem now is that RL has a small time parochial mentality which makes it appear a bit comedic versus bigger or better managed sports. Football is way out in front, everything pales before its dominance and consequently it couldn't give a **** about any other sport. Football has also successfully gentrified itself since the 70's and 80's so that as well as mass appeal it's now okay for establishment figures to be football fans where they were once Union or Cricket fans. Other big sports like Tennis, Cricket and Union have broad enough bases or well are enough managed to not have to worry too much. Union doesn't worry about RL any longer, it may have delusions of grandeur about its actual place in world sport, but its well enough managed to keep sell itself even when the on the field product is variable (RU games often veer between highly entertaining and dour with little in between). RL by contrast shoots itself in the foot too much with poor planning and parochialism, and in SL the product quality itself has been declining for too long for a variety of reasons: too many clubs don't invest enough in player development, the salary cap has been too low for too long which means if you are a promising young player you'd be better off playing RU (I'm not talking about high profile converts here), the strength of the NRL means we get less quality from down under now which hurts those teams who don't invest in player development even more. Finally there is the image problem, and not just the traditional flat caps and whippets but the fans of certain clubs who come across as violent chavs (it doesn't matter if it's only a small minority), it just doesn't look good on TV if the fans at the front are spitting, swearing, giving the V or throwing bottles on the pitch.

I'm not sure what the solution is, if there is a solution. Maybe it almost needs a sort of root and branch renewal movement the RFL, the clubs, the players, the fans all have to improve.

I petty much agree with you on all of that but, there is certainly bias/disdain from elements of the media.
The Challenge cup draw that was featured on Radio 4 was utterly disgraceful.

Whether they were trying to ridicule the game or just made a total hash of presenting the draw is up for debate but, for me, the game should certainly be selling itself much, much better.

We have THE toughest physical game in the world, plate by some of the finest all round athletes on the planet and we almost seem "happy" to play down the games strengths.

Did the Aussies force us to switch to a summer season in order to accommodate Sky? Hence why proper tours can no longer be scheduled and why we are reduced to squeezing a few internationals in at the end of the domestic seasons as a mere afterthought?

Did the Aussies force us into ditching the GB brand and replacing it with England, to the detriment of the development of other home nations like Wales, Ireland and Scotland and the termination of the successful Ashes Series concept?

Are the Aussies responsible for us being next to useless as a competitive international RL force against them for the past 45 years? Hence the growth of Origin as their modern-day pinnacle?

Go and develop some historical perspective and quit blaming the Aussies for everything that's rotten with the state of RL in this country, just because it fits snugly with your blinkered pro-SL agenda.

A nice distortion of history there, but I expect nothing less from you.

If you think the Aussies would be coming over and playing a full tour you're more deluded than I thought. Quite why you think it makes a difference to the Aussies when our season is I have no idea.

As for GB, well of course the Aussies wouldn't play a GB tour down under a year or so ago would they. GB were up for it, why weren't the Aussies?

We changed to England to get the Sport England money. Aside from a name change it hasn't affected the other nations in the slightest, unless you're now in favour of farcical "heritage" and "residency" rules now?

The Aussies are, as you well know, responsible for the continued plundering of Pacific Island nations talent and more through State of Origin the diminishing of the international game. Lest you forget Australia are not the top RL nation. Even Cameron Smith thinks the Aussies have neglected the international game in favour of the domestic game and State of Origin.