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| Didn't Ryan Hall get called for double movement yesterday?
Carvell's was deffo double movement and the benefit of the doubt (esp when Cudjoe's try was later ruled out with more doubt) was a terrible call
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| Quote ="Chris28"Didn't Ryan Hall get called for double movement yesterday?
Carvell's was deffo double movement and the benefit of the doubt (esp when Cudjoe's try was later ruled out with more doubt) was a terrible call'"
Not had a good day the VR, should stick to derbies, brilliant at those.
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| Quote ="Big Ask"50 50'"
Can you explain why you think that it was a 50/50 decision?
Carvell's ball carrying arm is on the floor, the Huddersfield player touches him (tackle complete) and then Carvell flips over and puts the ball down. Baffling decision.
Who was the video ref, out of interest?
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| It was as clear cut a double movement as its possible to get
Cudjoes had more "benefit of doubt" to it than Carvells and wasnt given
Couldnt see the ball, no reason to not give it. BoD to Cudjoe
What IS the Video Ref for again?
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| Benefit of Doubt only comes into play when there is no clear reason to disallow a try. That does not include Ian Smith not being able to make up his mind on whether Carvell's "try" was the subject of a double movement or not. It certainly does come in to play in the Cudjoe instance because no one, not one person in the ground, watching on the TV or whatever could see a clear reason to disallow.
It is the failure to follow simple rules such as these that brings entirely justifiable but easily avoidable criticism on referees.
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| Silverwood only asked the video ref to check the grounding. The ball is down and then rolls over the defenders arm.
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| 50/50 wouldn't have argued either way.
if you watch it full speed it is momentum that gets him over.
no hudds players were really complaining about it but if it was given no try i wouldn't of minded.
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| Quote ="wolfinwidnes"if you watch it full speed it is momentum that gets him over.'"
Think you need to look up the definition of momentum. I'm kinda certain it doesn't mean 'stop, roll over and then reach out'.
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| Quote ="Wigg'n"Think you need to look up the definition of momentum. I'm kinda certain it doesn't mean 'stop, roll over and then reach out'.'"
Didnt stop.
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| but he doesnt stop anyway it got given the result wasn't affected by it and like i say wouldn't have complained if it hadn't been given and the benefit of the doubt would have been against the grounding not the double movement so mr smith must of thought it was momentum.
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| I mentioned this on the HKR board the other week.
On the championship coverage the video refs have a live microphone so everyone at home can hear them go through their reasoning and thinking when they are making their decision.
It works rather well and instead of you thinking 'how has he come by that decision' you can see his thinking even if you don't agree with it.
It makes for a lot less heads scratching.
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| He doesn't have to stop. Ryan Hall didn't stop either on Saturday.
The ball carrying arm strikes the floor while a defender is in contact with the attacking player. The attacking player then lifts his arm from the floor and makes a distinct second movement to place the ball over the line.
It's as clear a double movement as you are ever going to see. I can understand now why they don't trust Ian Smith to be in the middle with a whistle any more if he can get simple decisions like that one wrong.
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| Quote ="Anakin Skywalker"I mentioned this on the HKR board the other week.
On the championship coverage the video refs have a live microphone so everyone at home can hear them go through their reasoning and thinking when they are making their decision.
It works rather well and instead of you thinking 'how has he come by that decision' you can see his thinking even if you don't agree with it.
It makes for a lot less heads scratching.'"
Works very well. Innovative and adds to the coverage. Don't know what their budget is and I cannot imagine its that much but Premier Sports put the beeb to shame.
I could have done with an explanation as to how he awarded a try as this one left me well and truly baffled. To me there was no doubt, obvious double movement. I would like to know his reasoning on using the benefit of the doubt as well as the 'try' could be viewed clearly from all camera angles.
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| I was adamant that it should have been no try. His body may have not completely stopped, however there was no momentum behind his arm to make it propel the ball over the line. That was a deliberate and conscious (double) movement.
But then again there is little consistency between the officials. They cant all ref in the exact same style however playing to one common set of rules would be preferable.
Also when the Hudds player got dragged to touch, I thought that when another player joined the tackle it should be called held? However I may be wrong.
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| Quote ="HKR Smithy"
Also when the Hudds player got dragged to touch, I thought that when another player joined the tackle it should be called held? However I may be wrong.'"
IIRC it requires more than one defender to engage, that's why I was gobsmacked that Gilmour decided to get out of the way and saunter off somewhere else. Mind you, given the rest of Gilmour's play today, I shouldn't have been so surprised
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| Quote ="cod'ead"IIRC it requires more than one defender to engage, that's why I was gobsmacked that Gilmour decided to get out of the way and saunter off somewhere else. Mind you, given the rest of Gilmour's play today, I shouldn't have been so surprised'"
Fair enough. Yeah he was absolutely appaling. I was embarrassed for him when he bottled taking a pass cos big Lee Briers was gunna smash him At least there werent too many Hudds fans there to witness it in the flesh
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| Quote ="Old_Faithful_IAKW"Any one else not have a clue about the interpretation of the dragging into touch rule.'"
Isn't it that you can push but not pull?
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| Quote ="roversmad"Isn't it that you can push but not pull?'"
Don't they say that you cannot drag the attacker to the touch line? It's one of the worst rules as it brings a lot of doubt and inconsistency.
Why can't they just say that the duty is on the ball carrier to stay in field? Reward good defence and it makes the rule clear for the players, the fans and most importantly the officials.
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| i think the benefit of the doubt call was actually on the grounding of the ball, as it was unclear on the replays whether he grounded it properly or not - should never have got that far though, the replay clearly shows carvell's arm on the floor and a defender on him - therefore no try
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| Personally thought they VR got both calls right on the Carvell / Cudjoe try / no try. However, when Brown was dragged into touched, thought Hudds should've got a penalty.
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| I thought it was no try CArvell, although I think the Cudjoe didn't score a try in a million years but surely if the ball can not be seen it must be benefit of the doubt? I thought you could push players into touch but not drag, I can see the reason behind good defence but if you are the attacker you can put any weight behind you, plus it easier for defenders to drag then push.
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| When Cudjoe gets up shaking his head and then waits for the VR decision on the 10metre line then anything other than a no try would bring the game in to disrepute. My initial reaction to Carvell was no try, but at full speed I can see how it was given.
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| The Carvell one was an obvious double movement. If Ryan Hall's was disallowed then Carvell's should too.
The Cudjoe one was the right call, just because you can't see the ball doesn't mean you can just blindly give a try. All the evidence pointed to him NOT grounding the ball.
The pushing into touch was also the right call. You can have 13 defenders pushing one attacker the full length of the pitch without it being called held. If another attacker comes in and lends weight then it should be called held. But none of the Hudds players could be d to help out, so it was the correct call.
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| Quote ="Him"
The pushing into touch was also the right call. You can have 13 defenders pushing one attacker the full length of the pitch without it being called held. If another attacker comes in and lends weight then it should be called held. But none of the Hudds players could be d to help out, so it was the correct call.'"
Gilmour made a concerted effort to get so far out of the way, he couldn't possibly have offered any assistance. Mebbe his mum's the laundry lady and he was thinking he wouldn't give her his shirt to wash too?
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| Quote ="wolfinwidnes"50/50 wouldn't have argued either way.
if you watch it full speed it is momentum that gets him over.
no hudds players were really complaining about it but if it was given no try i wouldn't of minded.'"
How can it be momentum when he turns from his back to his stomach to score?!
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