The RFL approached Samuel to see if he wanted to set up a club in south wales, he did, so he set one up, Crusaders were given special dispensation for overseas players (along with Hull KR, Castleford, Salford, Gateshead and Toulouse over the past few years), They progressed through the leagues through promotion and relegation and were given a franchise through the franchise process.

You missed out the bits about ileagal immigrants and a non existant salary cap

they werent illegal immigrants, they just didnt hold the correct work permit, something which Crusaders involvement hasnt yet proved to be anything other than completely above board. Neither have they been proved to have broken any Salary Cap they were/should have been under.

Quote ="SmokeyTA"they werent illegal immigrants, they just didnt hold the correct work permit, something which Crusaders involvement hasnt yet proved to be anything other than completely above board. Neither have they been proved to have broken any Salary Cap they were/should have been under.'" Leighton Samuels stated in the press that he was approached, by representatives of the RFL, and asked to set up a club for a place in SL in 3 years. He called it ‘The 3 year plan’. [i‘The United Kingdom Borders Agency (UKBA) stopped short of issuing criminal charges against the Wales-based club but made it clear that they had been irresponsible in not checking the eligibility of the Australian contingent that includes former Queensland State of Origin centre Josh Hannay.’[/i www.bigpondsport.com/news/tabid/ ... fault.aspx They were playing RL here illegally for the Celtic Crusaders. Not one, but six players. Accident? Oversight? No chance!

Quote ="SmokeyTA"they werent illegal immigrants, they just didnt hold the correct work permit, something which Crusaders involvement hasnt yet proved to be anything other than completely above board. Neither have they been proved to have broken any Salary Cap they were/should have been under.'" Leighton Samuels stated in the press that he was approached, by representatives of the RFL, and asked to set up a club for a place in SL in 3 years. He called it ‘The 3 year plan’. [i‘The United Kingdom Borders Agency (UKBA) stopped short of issuing criminal charges against the Wales-based club but made it clear that they had been irresponsible in not checking the eligibility of the Australian contingent that includes former Queensland State of Origin centre Josh Hannay.’[/i www.bigpondsport.com/news/tabid/ ... fault.aspx They were playing RL here illegally for the Celtic Crusaders. Not one, but six players. Accident? Oversight? No chance!

So they were working in this country legally ?

As for the salary cap , considering we had a 50 % rule at the time and considering the comments Mr Samuels has since made , I'll make my own mind up on that rather than yours or the RFL 's

Quote ="Pepe"Leighton Samuels stated in the press that he was approached, by representatives of the RFL, and asked to set up a club for a place in SL in 3 years. He called it ‘The 3 year plan’. [i‘The United Kingdom Borders Agency (UKBA) stopped short of issuing criminal charges against the Wales-based club but made it clear that they had been irresponsible in not checking the eligibility of the Australian contingent that includes former Queensland State of Origin centre Josh Hannay.’[/i www.bigpondsport.com/news/tabid/ ... fault.aspx They were playing RL here illegally for the Celtic Crusaders. Not one, but six players. Accident? Oversight? No chance!'" So Crusaders committed no offence, thanks for clearing that up.

Quote ="Pepe"Leighton Samuels stated in the press that he was approached, by representatives of the RFL, and asked to set up a club for a place in SL in 3 years. He called it ‘The 3 year plan’. [i‘The United Kingdom Borders Agency (UKBA) stopped short of issuing criminal charges against the Wales-based club but made it clear that they had been irresponsible in not checking the eligibility of the Australian contingent that includes former Queensland State of Origin centre Josh Hannay.’[/i www.bigpondsport.com/news/tabid/ ... fault.aspx They were playing RL here illegally for the Celtic Crusaders. Not one, but six players. Accident? Oversight? No chance!'" So Crusaders committed no offence, thanks for clearing that up.

What is [i'something completely different' [/i supposed to mean?





Not that I actually asked you to answer that post.

He didn't

That's not what it says, is it.

They were found guilty of employing these players without the proper paperwork. Ignorance is not a defence.

no, they werent, they were working with the incorrect work permits. This however doesnt make them illegal immigrants. They were legally in this country.



Im sure you will. But you do like making things up so its no surprise

im still unclear how two people who pretend to be RL fans can take so much pleasure in death riding an RL club to the point where everything needs to be pejorative and even to the level of simply making things up.

Its sad

Erm, no they werent. And i would be careful of accusing someone of a criminal offence they havent been proved guilty of.

They were found guilty of nothing, yet. The players were found guilty of not having the correct paperwork.

The Club are now subject to a civil penalty notice for not making the correct checks, with gives them the opportunity to show they did make the correct checks.

It means it is something different, i.e not the same

It means the issues you brought in werent relevant to the point made.

Not pleasure at all , however just pretending something didn't happen doesn't mean it didn't , but if enough people pretend it didn't happen , nobody will learn from it and they will make the same mistakes again , and again , and again

What is sad is how people like yourself are willing to act stupid to protect the people supposed to be running our sport

Or maybe your paranoia is just that. Maybe ignoring the facts and what we know to be true isnt the best way to come to the right outcome like you are!

You have basically admitted you are ignoring what we know to be true because it doesnt fit your image of the RFL and club, and its sad.

It would seem you are outvoted , he asked questions of tb's post that correctly challenged it , you havent answered them , neither has tb we notice , Just as he hasn't answered mine

What is sad is that Crusaders were given a much coveted,some may say ill deserved, 3 year SL licence and failed miserably just one third of the way through it.Thats the sad thing.

No, you were prevaricating again.

You couldn’t give a simple yes or no, because that would prove my point, so you try something cryptic that could mean anything.

Pathetic, just pathetic.

You dont know the truth any more than anybody else , just as you didn't know anything about the Celtic Crusaders except what you had read on here and in the press , none of what you thought you knew about them was from any kind of personal experience , open your eyes

You are assuming that the RFL dont tell lies

No No No No No , you dont understand . , it was just all a mistake , it was all planned that way from the start , it's just when the licence announcements were made somebody lost a full page of the press release , on it it stated that after one season they would re locate to north Wales .

It was all just a clerical error

Because they are quite clearly irrelevant,

the double standard highlighted by TB isnt answered by a completely different comparison.

Correct, it is a terrible shame

You would hope the RL community would rally round them, unfortunately the opposite has been true in a lot of cases

WTF

there isnt a yes or no answer to this question.

and the statement

[iThis is completely different[/i would only be cryptic to someone who didnt speak English.

Im really not sure how you expect me to clarify it any further.

It is different. It isnt the same. Your comparison is irrelevant to the point made. What you compared didnt address the point. Your Comparison was different to the point made.

Cryptic, Honestly, there is nothing cryptic about it

Your right, i have never professed to. I have simply refrained from making random accusations and pretending they are true like you have

yes, in absence of evidence to the contrary i havent decided to make things up. You should try it some time, you will probably find losing your ridiculous level of cynicism liberating

No, tb’s analogy was completely false.

The issue is not just about businessmen and cash. But, for the RFL, that’s all it does seem to be about if you are an expansion club.

Tb’s post totally, and deliberately, ignored the fundamental, and very important, differences between the two clubs. Without this, his point is worthless - As was yours.

Once I filled in some of the gaps for him it became impossible to sustain as an argument, without the sort of prevarication and evasion that came along in your post.

Of course the merits of the two clubs involved in a licence bid are relevant. That’s what the criteria are supposed to cover.

You’re a fine one to be accusing people of double standards.

It seems you missed the actual point of the argument. Which wasnt a direct comparison between the two clubs (however much you wished it was) but the differing attitudes to what was essentially the same situation with specific regard to the owners and the fact neither club is self sustaining.

Look at the post again, there is no mention of anything regarding the licensing criteria (probably because any mention of it simply results in you doing what you are trying to do now) Simply and clearly the double standard in some peoples attitudes towards Crusaders only being sustainable because of their owners wealth and Widnes only being sustainable because of their owners wealth, along with Peoples attitudes to the intrinsic viability of the clubs when Leighton Samuel walked away compared to Vaughan walking away.

once again, for clarity, the comparison is the two attitudes expressed towards pretty similar situations, specifically the two owners and their leaving NOT a comparison between the two clubs