One thing I do agree with is there whether it's licenced or not academies should need to be of a certain standard.

Whether that's facilities or more important the quality of of coaching there should be a criteria that guarantees youngsters we getting the best coaching possible.

Rimmer said "Rugby union in this moment in time have 9,000 participants in the 12-16 category, per academy, netball has 3,500. Rugby league has 1,400"

This number is very low is it not and the game needs to do something about this.

Well I aren't sure that those who run the game have ever had any great influence on it's fortunes.

The emergence of BARLA years ago really boosted the playing numbers, and in recent years playing numbers have plummeted.

In both cases I would not give a medal to, nor shoot, the head of the RFL at the time.....

We always seem to believe if we had the "Right man" at the RFL things would take off big time, but for me there's little the administrators can do to either "massively grow the game" or "damage it beyond repair"..........

Never sure about the validity of any numbers quoted. When sports England were dishing out grants, with the money being based on the number of participants I seem to remember RL claiming very big numbers of young players that never rang true.

Whatever Rugby Union are claiming I know clubs near me struggle very badly for players clubs that used to put four senior teams out only have one now, and many don't have junior sections any more. Kids soccer has also been decimated, and amateur sunday foortball seems to have disappeared. It was massive when I played....

I'm not saying Rimmer a liar, I'm saying he's only quoting numbers that other sports may be quoting to big themselves up. Rimmer low number may actually just be the truth

Well there's back road I take from Wakefield to Castleford that isn't too far to go before your in Cas, I can walk from Wheldon Road to Pontefract, there's a right turn on the way that goes to Featherstone, then a road that can take you back up to Cas etc.

The Briscoe's are from Fev. Eden Clare Watts and Holmes are Cas lads, there's more Wakey born lads in the game than Cas, but only because Wakey is bigger.A good number of quality players like Rob Burrow are Pontefract lads and erm they don't have a team. It's a smashing "geographical" location with a great RL pedigree.

The club issue isn't really relevant. Wakey have an acadeny and Cas don't. Pontefract don't even have a senior club...so what?

By all means have one really strong academy, call it "Calder" and play at Fev, Cas and Wakey in turn..........

Holmes is from Normanton, which is considered Wakefield territory (the Knights is a Wakefield club).

Wakey have invested heavily in their academy - why should they now piggy-back Cas, who have neglected theirs?

A service-area style academy, as tried in Hull, just didn't work.

The whole thing is club first.

It would benefit from being much more player centric, imo.

The whole game should be collaborating rather than the teams in the top division chasing their narrow, though legitimate, interests.

We still won’t beat Australia on anything more than an infrequent basis, but if that is the RFL’s KPI we might as well give up anyway.

The formation of Super League, all those decades ago,was going to be the improvement of ' elite ' players,so the national side could defeat Australia. That has certainly worked.

Cumbria and Wales are without the elitism; so,as in football,clubs will plunder players from far and wide.

The governing body,and the clubs,should sort out the areas of responsibility,and look towards a whole game improvement. It hasn't happened- and it won't happen.

Just more people exiting the sport...

How long did it take before widnes gave up on Cumbria?

They volunteered to do that region did they not?

The whole point here is there is still no bloody strategy..
Ok, so we cut the number of SL academies to try and "concentrate " the talent in fewer "hubs".
Will this actually make a positive difference to the quality of players coming through those fewer academies ?

These things are all down to numbers and good luck and decent coaching

THE main issue for RL is to find a way of increasing the participation numbers at the bottom and then ensuring that the better players stay in the game.

Tinkering at the top, reducing academies and numbers of competing clubs in SL wont save the sport and instead of cutting SL academies, "we" should be helping those SL clubs who's academies aren't up to scratch and not binning them off.

Quote ="Fantastic Mr Cat"How long did it take before widnes gave up on Cumbria? They volunteered to do that region did they not?'" Ah.An easy one on sport. As it's rugby league.You know short-termism,and how nothing they decide lasts for 5 minutes? Well it seems in 2015 - https://www.rugby-league.com/article/32 ... vikings-to But reading this,by 2016,it ended - https://www.totalrl.com/forums/index.ph ... academies/ plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.

Quote ="Fantastic Mr Cat"How long did it take before widnes gave up on Cumbria? They volunteered to do that region did they not?'" Ah.An easy one on sport. As it's rugby league.You know short-termism,and how nothing they decide lasts for 5 minutes? Well it seems in 2015 - https://www.rugby-league.com/article/32 ... vikings-to But reading this,by 2016,it ended - https://www.totalrl.com/forums/index.ph ... academies/ plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.

Just remember, right at this moment the RFL haven't cut clubs to concentrate the talent - [uthere are two spots unawarded[/u.

Cas, Bulls and HKR have been deemed to be below the standards required to qualify for an A-licensed centrally-funded academy spot.

"Didn't work" exactly how? Did it fail because of competing interests between two professional clubs? Or was the coaching set up useless?? Or did top kids refuse to join it because they wanted to wear the shirt of their own club? I keep reading the fact that it disbanded, but have never seen any explanation at all of how it actually "didn't work?"

Academies are actually already based on "areas" and not clubs per se. Some very big talents have come out of Halifax, Dewsbury, Widnes and Hunslet for instance. Pro-Clubs ability to fall out with each other and pursue self interest may have strangled the Hull set up, but many academies are based on players feeding in from other clubs areas.

The Huddersfield academy will in essence become the Bradford, Halifax and Huddersfield academy. The Leeds academy will continue to be the Leeds, Hunslet and Dewsbury academy.

Good post, but the strategy always was that to be a Superleague club you had to have an effective player development system. We saw the academy come in years ago when Leeds then Wigan got the ball rolling. In recent years clubs have been pushed toward also running reserves as well although the pandemic affected that move forward.

But you then get so called Superleague clubs who can't afford an academy or a reserve team like Salford. Then clubs like Bradford keep their academy going because they hold SL ambitions. I would guess if they got into Superleague they would then be able to invest in improving their academy to the standard asked for. That some academies are not up to standard may reflect a lack of money rather than will and although you talk of "Helping" I can't see such as Cas being given SL or RFL money to [i"help them get up to scratch"[/i

That's of course a very good point and if they up their standards they are in???.

But this may come down to Money. Salford don't even have to have an academy to be in Superleague and we know they cannot afford it.We also know Bulls are very tight financially so if raising the standards means raising the cash have they got that money?

Cas seem to have made no headway on that ground they spoke about, how their benefactor Mr, Fulton's business has been affected by covid I don't know but it could be a factor. Their top coach is being lured away no doubt by an offer he can't refuse..............

Over at HKR Mr. Hudgell has also pulled back somewhat, so is it a coincidence that these academies may not be up to scratch as the money isn't going in???

You'd certainly not cut the first team budget!!

The COHA was graded as ‘outstanding’ by the RFL in 2017, its second year of operation. However, it was never very popular with fans (who were then happy enough to label it a failure when it disbanded after the 2019 season) and there were probably some trust issues around who would sign which players. There was a perception that some of the staff were there to represent the interests of Rovers or Hull, rather than offering even quasi-independent leadership.

The official reason for returning to academies at both clubs was the introduction of mandatory reserve teams in 2020 (aborted because of the pandemic), and the need for more players to take that preliminary step towards SL. SL clubs will still be required to run reserve teams from 2022, which now looks challenging for Rovers and Castleford, if they adopt the approach that the RFL seems to be advocating/demanding. It doesn’t feel like the most joined-up pathway strategy.

The academy system has, for reasons I can only speculate about, offered very poor return on investment for Hull KR. This is especially true given that it has been presented as a major priority since 2012 with indications that money has in fact been directed there rather than to the first team. So I have reservations about it and would be open to the club trying something quite different - I don’t think they will, but personally I think it should be explored.

That said, with the re-establishment of an independent Hull KR academy in 2020, the club was clearly doubling down on a youth-first strategy. John Bastian’s record at other clubs is excellent and he was obviously not appointed as a cost-cutting measure. Until the pandemic curtailed activities last year, the club was putting out lengthy, in-depth, optimistic videos on the first steps of the new set-up. A lot of hopes were being pinned on it, so (from a club-first perspective) it is a metaphorical gut punch to our leadership and the fans, as well as being enormously sad for the lads in the system.

Thank you for that interesting information. I didn't think it was so recently that HKR went back to their own academy!!

IIRC didn't Neil Hudgell provide a bit of a bombshell about "stepping down" and the club needing to look for new owners? If they don't find them or if they find owners with enthusiasm but not a lot of money isn't the HKR academy therefore under threat?

Again I profusely thank you for the information and again note (corrections welcome) how HKR may have decided to "take back control" of their academy that would I think have supplied the reserves side that was in the pipeline, as a requirement of the brave new world of Superleague 2022.

There now seems to be a struggle that may be down to funding for certain clubs being a lot less (especially with TV funding reducing) where owners find they don't have the money like Bulls and HKR and maybe even Cas appear to be struggling with?.

There has been talk of 2022 being "two leagues of 10" which then makes me wonder if the 10 clubs in "Superleague One" would all have to run academies and reserves......

Certainly Hull, Leeds, Wakefield, Huddersfield, Warrington Wigan and Saints can do this and Les Catalans show signs of going back to a French player development system. Newcastle also have the money to do this....... pure speculation of course but the massive drop in TV income and changing circumstances as regards which clubs will have the rich owners and which won't, may just be a driver in terms of how Superleague will set up 2022........

No problem.



Just avoid confusion, work towards the new academy for the 2020 season began in 2019 following the announcement that COHA was to be disbanded after the 2019 season. 2020 was the first season of the new or rebooted HKR academy, but obviously that was severely disrupted by the pandemic.

Neil Hudgell has stepped down as Chairman but remains owner. Paul Lakin is now leading the club in a second spell as chief executive. They are looking for new investment, but Hudgell has said he is willing to continue funding the club until some is secured and perhaps partially thereafter. I wouldn’t be so presumptuous as to take it as a blank check forever, but I don’t think funding for the academy would be any more at risk than at other clubs reliant on a benefactor, running at a loss or otherwise in a financially precarious position - which is a fair proportion of clubs, unfortunately.

If he's continuing funding that's great. As a prominent legal company I'd guess he will always have the money' but no longer want the hassle of running the club.

I'll leave it to others to decide why the Hull merged academy didn't work - but it's a fact it didn't work.

Academies are not area based - per se or otherwise.

You're talking out of your .

How do you know it didn't work when you can't articulate why, and have to appeal to others to back you up.

What fixtures didn't they complete? Did they lose most of their games? Did the players go backwards in their development?.

As mild rover says:- [u "The City of Hull academy was graded as ‘outstanding’ by the RFL in 2017"[/u so it worked.

Over to you or do you want to "[ileave it[/i"

It worked so well that the clubs had already scrapped it.

If it was working, it would have been kept as a merged academy.

It worked as an eliite academy producing the best quality players possible, and not dragging players who were never going to make it out of the community game and depleting that game. Otherwise it would not have scored so well.

It didn't work for the self interest of the clubs and personal preferences at the clubs, who reportedly just liked "having their own team" so they went back to dragging in many kids that were never going to make it thus affecting community clubs badly.

Read the posts, don't leave out the fact that the clubs preferred to see the kids in their own club shirts to having a stronger set up.

All clubs have swarms of kids that go through their systems and dont actually have a decent chance of "making it", which applies to all sports.
If a club can produce 1 or 2 players each season they are "winning" but, you cant just have those "gems" as it's a team sport.

To suggest that clubs are "depriving the community game" of players is utterly ridiculous and whether those players make it into SL or not, they will improve as RL players and when they return to the community game later on, assuming that they stay within the sport, not only will they be better players, able to share their experience, they will also be happy that they "gave it a go.

The issue is numbers right at the bottom 6,7,8 year old's and RL has to find a way to keep these lads coming into the game.