So maybe this time Luke will be sent off?

Thought Chase was erratic but outside backs were good.
Ferris Hill and Graham were very good. Thought Sam Burgess was just going through motions.
If we can release our wingers I think we can trouble anyone.
Distribution is the issue. We actually looked better with Graham and stand off at times.

I should have been more clear.



Luke's a different player to the one who disgraced himself with the attempted leg break and a few cannon balls, he's showed a maturity this year.

France's forwards played pretty well. Their midfield defence was very good. Pelissier did some good things in attack, as did Casty and Fakir.

It was the French three quarter line, esp. after the loss of Duport, that let the team down.

If France would have played Aus or NZ they would have been made to look fools. France have the odd good player but we all know that they are most of the catalans squad but the good catalan players are imports like Menzies/Dureau & Webb.

Australia haven't conceded a try since, the opening game and NZ have looked like world champions in all their games, until they take the foot off the gas. But they are usually 40+ points up by then.

England have looked good in patches all tournament. I thought we played well against Ireland. Australia, good effort but we came up short against an under cooked Aussue team. Fiji we didn't look like scoring for 40 minutes.

We've been saying all tournament, if England put in an 80 minute performance they will do well. We've had four games now and still not done it. Now we're hoping it all comes together against the world champions?

Every man and his dog can see that our half backs are so poor in comparison, but Mcnamara is still goin to go with them in the semi. If Tomkins got injured in training this week I genuinely fear we could be nilled. He has offered more creativity than chase and Sinfield put together!

Chase and Sinfield will be dropped when hell freezes over, ok so it was cold in Wigan but the temperature was still in +

McIlorum and Roby are both 80 minute hookers IMO, it needs to be a choice of one, not both. I'd play Roby for the full match against NZ. McIlorum is a lot better than most on here give him credit for but he hasn't transferred his Wigan form to an England shirt.

The halves aren't working at all, and it's so bleeding obvious it's painful, especially as we all know he won't change them. This is our main problem. The passing across the line is slow and inaccurate. Tomkins and Watkins aren't getting their hands on the ball enough, we are trying too many inside balls and crash short balls to the forwards in good attacking positions when we should be utilising quick passing with dummy runners to find Tomkins out the back. Both wingers scored twice last night, but all of those tries were more down to shoddy defending on the edges from the French rather than clever attack opening them up. I really don't understand why Widdop wasn't given 80 minutes at 6 against either Ireland or Fiji, but McNamara's mind was made up 2 years ago than Sinfield and Chase were his halves.

We'll get well beaten next weekend, McNamara will step down as coach, Sinfield will retire from international RL, and English RL fans will once again have to think what might have been.

Players need dropping or just tactically replacing.

Burrow and Roby as hookers
Watkins needs dropping for Ablett, I'm not crazy Ablett is the best defensive centre we have I can forgo a little creativity to sure up defence.
Chase needs to go, Widdop to replace.
Charnley needs to stay in the side Briscoes WC is over.

France would have beaten Scotland comfortably. Respective scores of England and New Zealand not much different.

Ive said all along should have started Ablett in the centre. Widdop is not going to be match fit now to play 80 mins and he would need to be aainst NZ. Steve Mac as got it all wrong but this time next week he will be spouting out what we need to do next time we compete & come up against the worlds best......

Ablett has his critics but things you can never label him with is bad defence and giving less than100% plus he's a bit of a sh*thouse and that could help us

I think we will see more of the dark side of Rangi Chase next week when the Kiwis start winding him up leaving a slow distribution from Sinfield to the centres.
Our pack should hold there own, but I reckon we will be caught out wide.
For me MOM last night was James Graham lots of metres, lots of tackles and a passing game to trouble the opposition.
My expectation is that it will be a high intensity game with England competing very well, Rangi Chase will decide who wins this game. He needs to bring his 2nd half performance against Fiji to the table in the first half next week, if he fails its bye bye England.
Will we ever have a decent set of half backs playing for England?

Graham Roby G.Burgess
S.Burgess Westwood
O'loughlin

Very talented and very physical pack.

Definitely the key to success

Graham Roby S.Burgess
Ferres Westwood
O'loughlin

George on the bench.

Yes but the ease with which they got into try scoring positions and then fluffed it was terrifying. They could easily have scored 4 tries. Now in all probability NZ or Australia would have more possession against us and not miss those sort of chances. So, you soon start to think 1 try and 4 chances could turn into 9 of 10 actual tries. That's the worry for me.

Is the ref next week an Aussie? Could be our best hope - you can be sure the high and mighty of the NRL will want England rather than NZ to face their beloved "champs" in the final!

I can see where your coming from here, but, Ozzie refs have been diabolical for us as long as I can remember (and that is back to the 1950's). Mind you Perenara is a shocker as far as England is concerned as well.'They' never give us anything.

Southern Hemisphere teams aways seem to get the decisions

I can guarantee in the first 5 mins nz will get a penalty for a phantom technical offence giving them good early position. Watch out for it, guarantee it happens.

Not just Aussies who have the rose tinted glasses on. We were at Limerick last week and Bentham CANED Ireland, making the game even more one-sided than it needed to be. I think Klein has been the same at least for the NZ v PNG and England v France matches.
On the other side of the coin I thought Ben Cummings did a fair job for Scotland v NZ.

He's worked damn hard at his game, particularly the face pulling, best in the world.

I was a bit disapointed with the atmosphere, it was fairly flat. Jamie Peacock spoke before the start of the tournament about how much of a boost a home crowd can give you (personally I don't think it should make a difference, but then I haven't played test rugby) maybe this transferred to some of the players. It was a bit of a non event.

We're going to need to be an awful lot more solid around the ruck or Luke will have us on toast, I'm guessing this is the idea behind McIlorum starting, I really watched him last night because of the criticism he's attracted. I'm pretty neutral and as an England fan want him to do well, I don't think he offered a whole lot and if anything was too agressive in the tackle at times which led to him bouncing off. Wigan fans who seem him week in week out seem to think he can do a whole lot better, I do think we need to do something to combat Luke, I've seen NZ live for the last two games and irrespective of the opposition we simply have to counter him.

When I got back from Wigan I had a little look at the game and I noticed Noble in commentary mentioning that perhaps the idea of playing S. Burgess out wide is to counter SBW, could be something in that.

Anyone who thinks we should drop one of our halves now is crazy. You can't build a partnership for four weeks then just abandon it. If McNamara was serious about Widdop playing, he should have gave him some more game time during the group stage.

I would swap McIllorum for Burrow and maybe get rid of Farrell from the 17.

For me - our biggest problem is intensity. Against Italy, Fiji and France England have allowed themselves to be drawn back to the level of their opposition - their line speed in defence and pace in attack is shocking. Not to mention disrespect of possession.

Chase did play poorly against France but he was the man against Fiji.

My 17 v NZ:

Backs - the same (maybe Briscoe in for Charnley - not too fussed)
Forwards
Hill, Roby, Graham, S Burgess, Ferres, O'Loughlin
Bench
Burrow, G Burgess, Westwood, Mossop

Scotland had as many good positions v NZ as France had v England, you could make exactly the same arguement about NZ.

I saw NZ live on Friday night and I am certain that England can beat them. Of course if either side doesn't perform they will lose, but if they both turn up I see it as a 50/50 call. The match is unlikely to be decided by the forwards (unless Roby or Luke produce some individuasl brilliance). I think NZ have a pace advantage in the backs but the England outside backs are physically much bigger, if England can exploit that advantage that is how they will win.

England's left edge has been very good this toutnament, I thought that was stifled last night by playing Surgess there, Chase, Cudjoe and Hall need good ball not Sam taking the ball up. Ferres should be at Left Second Row, Farrell and Ablett are options that would compliment that edge, Sam Burgess is a great player, but the wrong player on that edge. I think Farrell yed his way past Ablett in the last two games, not that Ablett has done anything wrong.

On the other side I think Westwood needs to be told not to come inside too much on defence, the problems around Sinfield and Watkins are coming from Westwood not drifting leaving too much space for the others to fill, that is a minor adjustment.

England must also resist overplaying James Graham, with a prop rotation of Surgess, Gurgess, Hill and Graham, there is no need for anyone to play 60+ minutes, I am sure they will all want to, but they should not.

Burrow changed the Fiji game, can't believe he was left out v France.

So for me England's 17 should be:

Tomkins
Charnley
Watkins
Cudjoe
Hall
Chase
Sinfield
Hill
Roby
S Burgess
Westwood
Ferres
O'Loughlin

Graham
G Burgess
Farrell
Burrow