Did Mr Schofield neglect to mention that the top teams were playing in front of 6/7k whereas now they are playing in front of 16/17k? The game has moved on, i have no doubt that given the chance Keighley and Workington could again get 2k crowds, probably a little bit more, but that wont allow them to compete with clubs getting 16/17k and stop them being absolutely pummelled week in week out forcing us to bring in things like the salary cap and make them even more drastic than we have had to just to keep things remotely competitive with clubs getting 7/8k and/or being massively and admittedly unsustainably subsidised never mind the 2/3/4k Workington or Keighley could get in their current guises.
The harsh fact is, if we need to lose 2k fans in Keighley to gain 10k in Bradford then it is the right thing for the game to do.

Wow, what wit! first a nonsensical link to holocaust purely used for shock value and to remind us all how you 'tell it like it is'(or as normal people saw it, just because you are complete tit) now this cutting jibe from the 'I know you are, you said you are, but what am I' book of comebacks 1932 edition. Do you do any writing for Stephen Fry perchance?

And Cas, And Salford, And Huddersfield. Which is 4 out of 8


No but Widnes went bust trying to achieve promotion, as did Wakefield trying to avoid it. And Workington.

If wellsy would like to see a good example of a straw man, this is a pretty obvious one. Arguing against something you think i might say is a pretty poor.

I have no problem with you insulting me, if you want to go ahead. I just think that if you need to refer to the holocaust or nazism to do it, your clearly not a very well rounded and intelligent person, you would need to be quite nasty and mean spirited to do so. It is fairly pathetic to link anything said about promotion and relegation to the holocaust or nazism, especially when the anonymity this board affords you means you dont know who you are talking to, Jew or Gentile, keyboard warrior or War hero. If you cant conduct a conversation, even bickering or an argument without need to refer to an horrific genocide or racist ideology which resulted int he death and torture of millions within living memory then your views probably arent worth the pixels on my screen and if it means you get banned from using this board, i struggle to find sympathy.

That is complete bollox.

RL needs to gain 2k in Keighley [iand [/i10K in Bradford

You talk crap so much that you've lost sight of what RL really needs.

I think you fundementally misunderstood what i said. I posed a hypothetical scenario whereby we could only have one or the other
Of course it would be preferable to have both. Nobody has said any different. I just simply stated that if we had to choose one at the expense of another then the right choice is obvious. Its sort of the reason I started the sentence with IF.

As Denis Betts said on North West news........P & R does exist in RL, it's just done over 3 years and not 1. If you aren't good enough then you go down. If you're good enough then you come up.

You have fundamentally missed the point, you didn't need to start the sentence with IF.

That's bollox too. Who came down when Widnes came up?

Crusaders?

Had they not gone bust (not good enough) then I presume Wakey would have done.

I'll say it again - Who came down when Widnes went up?

Ok then. Technically nobody. You win. RL is rubbish and we need to bring back P & R.




Feck me.

No, if you fit the RFL's version of being good enough, then you can come up.

The RFL have hardly been truthful or transparent about the basis on which they are choosing clubs for a franchise. I could support the franchise system, or something similar, if I thought I could trust the RFL to make a fair and balanced decision based on the criteria set out.

Crusaders did not deserve a franchise, they had weak structures and were doomed to failure. Bradford did not deserve a B grade last time. Widnes did not deserve a franchise on the basis of distinctly average performances on the field at a lower level. These decisions were made regardless; maybe the RFL were justified in making these decisions, but they were not honest with the reasons they gave publicly because those reasons may not have been palatable.

Whatever the rights or wrongs of the RFL's decisions, they are an organisation I distrust — and should distrust based on past evidence. They are in charge of determining the successful franchise applications, so it will continue be a system I can't trust to do the right thing.

Subjective decision making by the governing body should play no part in determining a clubs future, and much of the franchise criteria are being judged subjectively.

I fully agree that Crusaders shouldn't have come up when they did, but I do agree with Widnes. I'd rather see a team have a bad season they can build upon than a team go the way of Crusaders because they've spent more than they can afford. A team could win the Championship 3 years in a row but be in an absolute mess off the field, so imo they shouldn't be in SL as it would make them worse. A team who has sorted themselves out off the field and had moderate success on it (don't you have to win either the GF or NRC to apply?) should however be given a crack.


I wouldn't trust the RFL either though personally.

The Widnes case is open to discussion - I'm not suggesting it is out and out incorrect. What I am suggesting is that the RFL are willing to bend the already very flexible rules around franchising to suit their own needs.

The RFL couldn't justify the crusaders inclusion in SL on any basis other than them not being a heartland club. So in awarding the grades they ensured that plenty of clubs were rated with a C, thus allowing them to pick clubs from that pool without any further justification. I have no evidence, but that feels premeditated to me.

Until the system is objective, fair and transparent then I cannot support it.

Ignoring location, and using the Crusaders as the template, almost any team could qualify for SL if the RFL decided it was to be so.

The whole Crusaders thing was a mess from start to finish.

HKR avg 8000 and have a reasonable corporate support level yet still require a 300k extra payment from a rich fan every year to stay afloat, this is for a mid table team. Sorry but I don't see too many options outside of SL that will actually ADD to SL and the perception of our top flight being a vibrant growing code. Harsh but true. With no disrespect to Salford or Widnes can you honestly say they have added a lot to SL so far (fair enough it is early days for Widnes and hopefully Salfords new ground will give them a boost forward). if anything the promotion to SL needs to be stricter imo.

I would like to see Sky televise a 3rd SL game each week for an extra bundle of pounds!

Quote ="Dreamer"You have fundamentally missed the point, you didn't need to start the sentence with IF.'" to pose the hypothetical scenario i did. If is a conjunction which introduces a conditional clause. Here is an explanation of a conditional clause for you. It will explain why i used the word IF to introduce the hypothetical scenario en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conditional_clause

Quote ="Dreamer"You have fundamentally missed the point, you didn't need to start the sentence with IF.'" to pose the hypothetical scenario i did. If is a conjunction which introduces a conditional clause. Here is an explanation of a conditional clause for you. It will explain why i used the word IF to introduce the hypothetical scenario en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conditional_clause

Over the 3 seasons, Widnes weren't the best Championship team in any of them

They won the right to apply, and had their house in order better than any of the other sides that could. I'd say that made them better.

No. Once they had "ticked a box" by winning the NRC in year one they were promised a place in SL. That is a 100% nailed-on certainty. Otherwise they would have made an effort to compete on the field, but then they didn't need to.

I firmly believe that this is the reason they are finding it so difficult to compete now as they went into SL with no momentum or even the basic foundations for the higher level of play. That's ok with the RFL though because the off-field boxes were all ticked.

Let me stress that this is in no way criticism of Widnes but of the system which is not structured to prepare a club for a higher level of the game, just a supposedly higher level of business. Yes, a club should be run along sound business lines but we should never lose sight of the fact that it is still a sport.

Now, now, I didn't say that or even imply it.


Nope, I didn't say or imply that. I can see how franchising could work but not in it's current format or with the current league structure. IMHO, of course




Now you really are being silly

Now, now, I didn't say that or even imply it.


Nope, I didn't say or imply that. I can see how franchising could work but not in it's current format or with the current league structure. IMHO, of course




Now you really are being silly

Quote ="SmokeyTA"to pose the hypothetical scenario i did. If is a conjunction which introduces a conditional clause. Here is an explanation of a conditional clause for you. It will explain why i used the word IF to introduce the hypothetical scenario en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conditional_clause'" That was really interesting, thank you. I've provided a link that might help you: [urlhttp://www.primaryresources.co.uk/english/pdfs/PC_cap.pdf[/url

Quote ="SmokeyTA"to pose the hypothetical scenario i did. If is a conjunction which introduces a conditional clause. Here is an explanation of a conditional clause for you. It will explain why i used the word IF to introduce the hypothetical scenario en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conditional_clause'" That was really interesting, thank you. I've provided a link that might help you: [urlhttp://www.primaryresources.co.uk/english/pdfs/PC_cap.pdf[/url

In my opinion we would need two league of twelve with p & r with both league being fully professional and also the only way to boost the crowds would be to have an even league e.g. always thinking your teams has a chance to win e.g. same applies in aus.

Also I don’t see the point in having overseas player with a franchise system