He's got a point though. Manu was pretty quiet on Friday night

I know. Friday night wasn't Manu's best game at all. He was a lot quieter than his usual impressive self.

but Tomkins was quiet as well and Manu put a good couple of tackles on him whilst Tomkins did none

my opinion as ive posted on other sites:

three points!

1 - he is nowhere near good enough!

2 - he is not english and has already played for tonga.

3 - im sorry mcnamara, australia dont do this. we may have picked players who were born overseas but they emigrated to this country as children with their families where they learnt to play rugby league. manu signed a contract and moved to england for work, there is an extremely strong chance he will return to australia when he finishes in super league.

Didn't Jarred Hayne play for Fiji in the 2008 World Cup? I'm pretty sure he'll feature this autmun

Dont talk about what the Aussies do they have been doing it for years,Tony Carroll played Origin then for the Aussies then the Kwis.

If we are going down that route I belive Clint Newton's mother is english.
Do I want Clint playing for england though....................Nope.

im not sure how this is even relevent to manu playing for england. hayne played his first test for australia in 2007 against nz. he was then allowed to switch to fiji for the world cup (qualified through a fijian father) which we all know is an absolute joke, before switching back to australia in 09. it is completely different to somebody who signed a sporting contract to move to england and 3 years later potentially play for england. australia have never done a faasavalu, brent webb, nathan fien or potntially a willie manu.

carroll is a joke. im in no way defending playing for two countries, it is my biggest pet hate in rugby league, but i do remember the circumstances in why he played for nz quite well. he had already played origin for qld, when in the year 2000 he didnt make the australian team and was encouraged quite strongly by the arl to play for nz as it would affect his chances of representing qld and australia in the future. the arl stupidly had the impression that the world cup matches werent test matches (which they have since rightfully corrected) and they wanted to 'even' up the competition as much as possible so they encouraged a number of players to play tests for their second choice nations. this is a view they still share today and it holds international rugby league back immensely. tonie carroll moved to australia as a toddler and had the choice of representing aus or nz, but he should never had been allowed to play for both.

again though, this has nothing to do with england selecting willie manu so im not sure the relevance in mentioning carroll????

ben te'o could one day

Henry Paul.

auckland born Tonga international Willie Mason? Fijian Born fijian international Lote Tuqiri?

Karmichael Hunt was born in NZ and played amateur RL in NZ before representing Australia

Brad Thorn was born in NZ and represented NZ at Union

Brent Kite represented Tonga, and was named in the Tonga squad for the 2008 WC before the Aussies decided they wanted him.

all of these scenarios are completely different to willie manu. willie manu moved to england because of a sporting contract to play rugby league in his late 20's. the players you mention are australians with dual nationalities.

mason was born in auckland while his australian father and tonga mother lived there for a while before they returned to australia when he was aged 2. he is not a new zealander.

tuquri and family emigrated here when he was 3 or 4.

hunt and family emigrated here aged 10.

thorn emigrated here with family as a young child before moving through the ranks to play for qld and australia before switching to nz union.

kite was born in australia to an australian father and tongan mother and has played tests for both tonga and australia.


i understand your frustration with players playing for more than one country, i share your frustration. but as i said previously, australia has never had a player in willie manus or maurie faasavalu's situation with england play for them. as spud also said, this may change with ben teo, if it does ill be the first one to criticise the incompetent arl. i wont be surprised if it does happen as i believe the arl hold the international game back more than anyone, just not for the same reasons you do. the arl (who are basically the rlif) encourage players such as kite, mason, carroll, tuquri to play for other countries telling them it wont damage their future chances with origin and australia to try and make these countries more competitive so they dont have to put any real development work into these countries.

With this only being a train on squad things may change drastically later in the year. My thoughts are that we dont need Manu in the side. Yes a good player although the past couple of years I've felt he has a spell of two or three good games then he gets a bit quiet for a few more and if he's in his mediocre stage while playing for England when there are youngsters available it would seem a pointless exercise.

Obviously speaking as a Hull KR fan I would have been interested to see Liam Watts get a call up to the train on squad just for the experience of being around some top quality players and see if this could develop his game any further.

In 10 pages of posts I cant believe nobody has even questioned why this squad is left upto one mans decision. For many years the Aussies have had a selection panel and the coach is there to do just that, coach the set of players the selectors think will do the best job for their country. It hasn't let them down in a long long time so I dont see why the RFL shouldn't look into this too.

On the subject of Macnamara being England coach, the RFL were damned if they did and damned if they didnt. Most wanted an English coach but many would have only been happy for Kear to take the reigns. McDermott or Macnamara would have and are seen as poor choice of coach because they've not done too much at club level. Noble has been there and failed while Sharp is nowhere near the right level. So what were the RFL supposed to do?

Back to the poster that said "No" to Tom Briscoe. As a HKR fan I can honestly say Tom is the hottest prospect for a winger this country has had for a long time. He's very strong, confident and has plenty of growing left to do, this is without saying about his undoubted speed and defensive ability. Is good as Foxy is I dont actaully think he's a good choice for England, he is a confidence player who when he makes mistakes tends to make more and more until he does something good, in an England side that has been given their backsides by the Aussies many times before he might just lost that confidence and have a very poor series. Good back up player but Broscoe should be in IMO.

I just hope for the good of the English youngsters that Manu is ommited from the Tri-Nations squad and our youngsters are brought through in this competition giving them time to work on their game before the World Cup.

i think you are wrong. You are drawing in aribitrary line and deciding someone like Hunt, born in auckland to Tongan and Cook Islander parents before moving to Australia is Australian, but someone like Manu, born in Sydney to Tongan parents before moving to britain cant be british, Hunts Australian nationality is solely on residency, as is Masons, as is Civonicevas

Not forgetting the enquiries the ARL made re Fuifui Moimoi

The problem isnt the ARL encouraging these players to play for their nations, its them then demanding that they turn their back on their nations in order to play origin. The game as a whole would have been better for Kite, Mason, Hayne, Tuqiri, Hunt staying with their nations and still being allowed to play origin, like Adrian Lam.

fact is, given the opportunity any player worth his salt wants to test himself at the highest level, when its a choice between origin and the 4nation and the world cup with Australia or NZ, and basically a world cup for any of the other nations, the pacific islanders are choosing the Australia and NZ,

Petero himself has said he would have loved to represent Fiji but couldnt because of the origin rules.

i didnt decide hunt was australian, i have seen numerous interviews with him talking about his pride in representing australia and why he turned down nz. i didnt say he wasnt also a kiwi, or had connections to his parents countries which are samoa and the cook islands. as i said previously, mason was born in nz while hs australian father lived there for a couple of years before moving back to australia, and yes civonicevas australian nationality is based on residency which doesnt make him any less aussie than me. he is also a very proud fijian. manu moved to england for work purposes, surely you can see the difference here?



nothing more than a media beat up. a journo asked moi moi if he wanted to play origin, of course he said yes.



they did stay with their nation, their nation is australia. i can see why people think it would be a good idea to play origin and for another nation, it is probably a better system than what we have now but it is not the best way to develop international rugby league. it is a cheap fix which will put no development into developing countries. origin is a contest between 2 states of australia and a selection trial for the national team. what we need to do is give other countries the opportunity to also play meaningful rep or test rugby league during the same time as the aussies play origin mid season, to give players who have connections to more than one country a fairer choice on who they represent. once the decision is made there will be no switching, our current situation is a farce and holds the sport back so much.



the 'pacific islanders' you talk about are also australian though, they have every right to. also, there are many players who have turned down origin to play for other countries. the kiwis world cup winning captain nathan cayless was born and raised in australia, captained the aussie schoolboys but played test footy for new zealand which was great. the island teams are full of players born and/or raised in australia. if we gave these nations more meaningful tournaments and tests, perhaps more players will commit to them, but it is a commitment. you cant play in an australian origin series or switch to aus or nz in the future.



im sure petero would be proud to play for fiji. he also says the proudest thing he has done in rugby league is represent australia. he made his choice and has stuck with it!

so if Manu decides to take up dual citizenship you don't have a problem with it?

Other sports do it all the time but it still is ridiculous and I'd rather see us continue losing with an all english team than winning (ha like Manus going to make any difference) with some Barbarian'esk made up squad.

Manu should not get a place ahead of Tomkins or Westwood. The 40 man train on squad is a joke.

Other than the reason for moving, which is completely irrelevant no.

Civonicevas parents moved for economic reasons, Manu moved for Economic reasons. Civoniceva wanted to represent his new nation, Manu wants to represent his new nation.

its geoff carr who looked into it, not a journo, and the only reason he cant is because he has represented another country in the last two years making him inelligble for origin. (lets ignore the hypocrisy of that stance considering the history of Lam and Carroll)


Nonsense, their nation is whatever they decide it is. And when you have a player like Petero, a proud fijian, born in fiji, or fijian heritage unable to choose to represent fiji (even though he has publicly said he would like to) because he also would like to represent his state, it shows the double standard Australia apply.

And you are right, the answer is to give meaningful test and rep rugby to the pac islanders, but considering the lip service the NRL and ARL pay the NZRL and RFL I cant imagine that happening any time soon.


what are they getting in return for making this commitment?

In return for giving up the chance to play meaningful, top tier internationals every year, for giving up origin, what do they get? a game against the Prime ministers x111? a tournament against the other 2nd tier nations if we can be d putting one together for them? a world cup every so often?
and the choice clearly favoured australia, had petero being split 50-50 over which nation to represent, the opportunities offered by Australia far far far outweigh those offered by Fiji

not at all, he isnt english, isnt good enough and has played for another country.

well if you cant see the difference between somebody such as civoniceva who moved to australia before he turned 1, who grew up playing rugby league in qld and went on to make the nrl, his state and his country playing for australia, and manu who grew up playing rugby league in australia and took up a contract to play rugby league in england before being named in a 30 man squad with the potential to play tests for england after 3 years residency, then i think we are wasting our time here.



geoff carr is an idiot who makes things up as he goes along. the further away he is from rugby league, in particular international rugby league the better.



an australian playing for qld and australia is now a problem?



completely agree with you, the arl are terrible for the international game and usually only have their own interests at heart. massive change is needed in order to help grow our game. i would hope that the rfl and nzrl make a stand against them one day for the good of the game, i dont know why they dont.



i agree with you here as i have stated in my posts. they need more a chance to play regular, meaningful tests and tournaments and perhaps more players of their heritage will commit to them. in saying that, if someone such as fui fui moi moi for example was truly a tongan, surely he would stick to playing for them and nobody else. i would never play any sport for a country other than australia!



i see your point, but again, an australian is playing for australia so i dont see the relevance here in comparison to willie manu.


one thing we would all agree on though is the one nation for life rule right? this nation swapping is massively damaging the game at international level and is one of the biggest issues holding us back as a sport. why cant the powers that be understand this?

If Manu plays for England and scores the winning try against Australia you won't all be whinging then.

In fact I reckon you will all be saying what a great rule it is that non English nationals can be given the wonderful opportunity to represent such a fantastic sporting nation as England.

APPARENTLY....According to some on these boards.......

Barry_McKenzie was born in the North of England but is now the pride of Australia

Insane!

why did that start?

ive been accused of being someone called AP before as well

Bazza...I know you're a true crim (and if you aren't, you should be banged up)......and you're like a breath of fabreeze after the guff served up by the other colonial upstarts.......

in other news
I thought this thread was going to be moved to other sports......Man U for England? Don't be daft...their squads all johnny foreigner

...just like HKR