Probably unfair of me to assume these events are all alike but some of the 'entertainment' on show during the Manchester pride wasn't for children's eyes.

Others would disagree with you , some people would consider that children as young as 7/8 should be given sex education including homosexual / lesbian and transgender type stuff , strange and obnoxious as that would seem to me , personnaly I think any child given this type of education should then come under the attention of the local social services

Quote ="Barnacle Bill"There were some girls I liked at that age and some I hated, what does that tell you? What I do know is that the concept of being gay or straight was not in my realm of consciousness it just did not figure at all, it was not an issue, and nor should it be for any 8 year old. I have no proof that an 8 year old cannot know it is gay, but there are some things that are just common sense (does this really need to be explained?). I have no proof that child abuse is a bad thing but I know it is. I do not see how a sexually inactive child can know it is gay when it is not being driven by some inner desire or sexual preference, hence my "lifestyle choice" reference above. I used to love playing conkers when I was 8. To be honest, nowadays I can take it or leave it. I did know I was going to be a train driver or an astonaut, didn't happen. What I am saying is that what I felt and thought at the age of 8 had little bearing on my career or even pastimes, so how on earth could I have known my sexual preference at that age? If a child of 8 is aware of its sexual preference then as far as I am concerned it has been subject to abuse, mentally or physically but definately abused. That is not to say that being gay is in some way wrong or preverted, I hope you have a long and happy life in a loving relationship, or shag your way round the world if you like, it makes no difference to me. But what I will not accept as right is the idea that a child of 8 or 9 can [uknow[/u it is gay (or straight or non of the above). Anyway, as Starbug has pointed out this has come a long way from RL, if it was ever about RL in the first place.'" I agree someone should not be concerned about Sex at this age. But even at such a young age you can 'Fancy someone' and it not be sexual. At that age I was attracted to guys but just not in a sexual way. Sexuality is as much to do with Love as it is Sex. Anyway, Back to Sexuality and Rugby.... Apparently there is an organisation for LGB Rugby League fans (www.therfl.co.uk/inleaguetogethe ... areaid=260): Quote Lesbian, Gay and Bisexual (LGB) supporters and their friends and families This group has been recently been set up as both a social networking opportunity and an advisory group on LGB issues. LGB fans and supporters can arrange to get together either at matches or to via e network as soon as it has been set up. It is also hoped that this group will also advise the RFL and clubs on how to engage positively with the LGB community, offer expertise on LGB issues as well as supporting clubs who take the initiative by developing exciting projects that target the LGB community as seen by Oldham Roughyeds and Salford City Reds. If you would like to join or help run this group then please contact Sarah Williams (sarah.williams@rfl.uk.com) in the first instance. An LGB Rugby league fans forum has also now been set up. Please contact Sarah Williams (contact details as above) for more information.'"

Quote ="Barnacle Bill"There were some girls I liked at that age and some I hated, what does that tell you? What I do know is that the concept of being gay or straight was not in my realm of consciousness it just did not figure at all, it was not an issue, and nor should it be for any 8 year old. I have no proof that an 8 year old cannot know it is gay, but there are some things that are just common sense (does this really need to be explained?). I have no proof that child abuse is a bad thing but I know it is. I do not see how a sexually inactive child can know it is gay when it is not being driven by some inner desire or sexual preference, hence my "lifestyle choice" reference above. I used to love playing conkers when I was 8. To be honest, nowadays I can take it or leave it. I did know I was going to be a train driver or an astonaut, didn't happen. What I am saying is that what I felt and thought at the age of 8 had little bearing on my career or even pastimes, so how on earth could I have known my sexual preference at that age? If a child of 8 is aware of its sexual preference then as far as I am concerned it has been subject to abuse, mentally or physically but definately abused. That is not to say that being gay is in some way wrong or preverted, I hope you have a long and happy life in a loving relationship, or shag your way round the world if you like, it makes no difference to me. But what I will not accept as right is the idea that a child of 8 or 9 can [uknow[/u it is gay (or straight or non of the above). Anyway, as Starbug has pointed out this has come a long way from RL, if it was ever about RL in the first place.'" I agree someone should not be concerned about Sex at this age. But even at such a young age you can 'Fancy someone' and it not be sexual. At that age I was attracted to guys but just not in a sexual way. Sexuality is as much to do with Love as it is Sex. Anyway, Back to Sexuality and Rugby.... Apparently there is an organisation for LGB Rugby League fans (www.therfl.co.uk/inleaguetogethe ... areaid=260): Quote Lesbian, Gay and Bisexual (LGB) supporters and their friends and families This group has been recently been set up as both a social networking opportunity and an advisory group on LGB issues. LGB fans and supporters can arrange to get together either at matches or to via e network as soon as it has been set up. It is also hoped that this group will also advise the RFL and clubs on how to engage positively with the LGB community, offer expertise on LGB issues as well as supporting clubs who take the initiative by developing exciting projects that target the LGB community as seen by Oldham Roughyeds and Salford City Reds. If you would like to join or help run this group then please contact Sarah Williams (sarah.williams@rfl.uk.com) in the first instance. An LGB Rugby league fans forum has also now been set up. Please contact Sarah Williams (contact details as above) for more information.'"

Quote ="RainbowRhino"I agree someone should not be concerned about Sex at this age. But even at such a young age you can 'Fancy someone' and it not be sexual. At that age I was attracted to guys but just not in a sexual way. Sexuality is as much to do with Love as it is Sex. Anyway, Back to Sexuality and =#FF0000Rugby.... Apparently there is an organisation for LGB Rugby League fans (www.therfl.co.uk/inleaguetogethe ... areaid=260): '" We're discussing Rugby ?

Quote ="RainbowRhino"I agree someone should not be concerned about Sex at this age. But even at such a young age you can 'Fancy someone' and it not be sexual. At that age I was attracted to guys but just not in a sexual way. Sexuality is as much to do with Love as it is Sex. Anyway, Back to Sexuality and =#FF0000Rugby.... Apparently there is an organisation for LGB Rugby League fans (www.therfl.co.uk/inleaguetogethe ... areaid=260): '" We're discussing Rugby ?

Just stuck to spurting over the skinny types have ya





, im sure one day you will fulfil that dream and you can get tablets to help

Excellent well made point about RL there Hutchie

, why is this thread still here ?

If you don't like it, don't read it.

Good point

How do you know if you don't like it if you haven't read it?

I haven't read Sea Angler: "the number one sea fishing magazine" but i'm betting i won't like it

I feel the same way about Gareth Thomas' upcoming autobiography.

Should be a good read

Im thinking Starbug had a nerve touched.

You mean seeing childrens sexuality discussed on a supposed RL forum , you bet

in the context of homosexuality in RL though Starbug. Its not a random interjection to the argument.

There is a problem. The fact there isnt one openly Gay RL player tell us there is a problem. Statistically there should be at least a few and there isnt.

And yes, they should be open about it, and it is important we know. Not for any gossip or the strange vicarious life people seem to live through heat magazine but because homophobia is still rife in the game. I know we like to pretend we are all inclusive as a game but we arent. There is a lot of latent homophobia in the game and will put off some Gay players.

You cant tell me that in your dealings with players that they dont call each other homophobic names. That you dont see the forwards 'joking' with the backs they are faggots or queens for not being able to front up Etc. Deep Down we all know this probably isnt meant to insult or generalise gay People but it is obviously going to be a barrier to some gay peoples involvement in the sport-which is why people like this guy are important.

It isnt for me or you that what he has done is important. its for the 10 year old boy who thinks he is different. Its for the 15 year old who has played RL for the past 9 years who is now hurt by these words and attitudes, Who (wrongly) feels that a macho sport like RL isnt for him because of the connotations and impact of the what is quite often unintended homophobia and raising awareness of these kind of things are important to how the game leaves behind some previously very common misconceptions and stereotypes

Whilst i wouldnt disagree with a lot of what you have put i still feel the point is being missed.

When we have homophobia and a lack of homosexual 'role models' (and believe me i hate using that phrase) then Kids at 8 or 9 will be getting the idea that homosexuality is a bad thing and effeminate. When that kid reaches 15/16 and they discover they are gay then they are going to associate the negativity shown towards homosexuality with themselves. And again when we put it into an RL context, If we see throughout a childs development that Homosexuality is a bad and effeminate thing - and then we see throughout our game that anything less than the masculine ideal isnt wanted then Gay people will see themselves as not wanted.

Its about taking sexuality out of it completely

I haven't missed the point Smokey, you've changed it.

Why on earth does a 8/9 year old need a homosexual role model? They need role models, the sexuality of the role model is irrelevant and there are plenty of high profile homosexuals and lesbians. The fact that they are homosexual or lesbian should be irrelevant to their achievements unless you want to argue someone is a role model simply because they are homosexual or lesbian!

To see that homosexuality isnt a bad thing and to see it is normal and it doesnt matter. To see that homosexuality doesnt limit your opportunities and that there are homosexuals in all walks of life.

Wanting to shield children from homosexuality suggests there is something wrong with homosexuality.

If we are teaching kids at 8 or 9 that homosexuality is something to hide away then they are going to hide away when they learn about themselves later on in life

There are plenty of high-profile homosexuals and lesbians. There arent ANY in RL. There isnt a high profile player, administrator even fan. Is this just co-incidence? or is it that Gay People feel our community excludes them or at the very least doesnt welcome them? Having high profile gays in the game shows that they are welcome.


And Just to take it on a bit further. If children dont know at 8 or 9 whether they are gay or not then just down to the laws of averages a fair few of our 8 or 9 year old kids who play RL will go on to be gay, yet not one of our 3-400 pro and semi pro players are, Why is that? what is happening between the ages of 8 or 9 when no-one knows to the ages of 18-19 when they are becoming pro players that (for want of a better word) [ifilters[/i out the gay ones?

You obviously dont understand the concept of ' privacy ' , and a persons sexuality is quite often a large part of that ' Privacy '

Kids at 8/9 should not be being taught anything sexual , that is the point you and others are clearly missing , it is part of being a child , having a childhood unfetered by adult things

You have catastrophically missed the point my friend. Happy New year.

I very much do understand the concept of 'Privacy'. What I also understand is there nothing positive about a homosexual person needing to keep that part of their life 'Private'. There is no positive reason to hide your sexuality

and Kids at 8/9 are being taught things about sex or sexuality whether you like to or not and whether you mean to or not. Simply by pretending it doesnt exist you are teaching kids 8/9 something about sexuality, it may not be something very positive, but you are still teaching them it

No Bill. It is you. And its very disappointing that this attitude is still as rife as it is,

But there is ' personal choice ' , or in your world maybe there isn't

There is personal choice indeed, and i have no criticism of a persons personal choice

What i would say however. Is there is still no positive reason for that person to make that choice.

Which shows we have a problem.

If we have no Gay Players, we have a problem

If we have Gay players but they feel the need to hide their sexuality, we still have a problem

That persons choice is their choice and their choice only, The fact they needed to make that choice at all is our problem