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| Quote ="Pepe"So there's absolutely no difference, whatsoever, between the Celtic Crusaders and the Widnes Vikings?'" In principle, no
Quote They were always equally viable, and the fan base and infrastructure which the Widnes Vikings already have in place is totally meaningless?'" this is something completely different
Quote
Do you really think that the Widnes Vikings would struggle just to get through one season of a 3 year licence, and have to move 100 miles and set up another club to save themselves?'" this is something else which is completely different
Quote
Do you really believe that Steve O’Connor is a lying crook, like the previous owner of Widnes, and that he is no different than Leighton Samuel, who has a history of walking out on rugby clubs?'" and this again is completely different
Quote Because, for your post to make sense, you would have to answer yes to all of that and more.
 '" and this is just wrong |
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| Quote ="Pepe"Correct!
And then the RFL just fast tracked then through the leagues, on the back of illegal Australian imports, and put them in SL whether they were ready or not. Because they promised LS that this is what they would do.'"
And this is a lie.
Whats strange is its a lie that everyone knows isnt true, which makes me wonder why you would bother with it |
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"And this is a lie.
Whats strange is its a lie that everyone knows isnt true, which makes me wonder why you would bother with it'"
So the truth is what ? |
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| Quote ="Starbug"So the truth is what ?'" The RFL approached Samuel to see if he wanted to set up a club in south wales, he did, so he set one up, Crusaders were given special dispensation for overseas players (along with Hull KR, Castleford, Salford, Gateshead and Toulouse over the past few years), They progressed through the leagues through promotion and relegation and were given a franchise through the franchise process. |
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"The RFL approached Samuel to see if he wanted to set up a club in south wales, he did, so he set one up, Crusaders were given special dispensation for overseas players (along with Hull KR, Castleford, Salford, Gateshead and Toulouse over the past few years), =#FF0000They progressed through the leagues through promotion and relegation and were given a franchise through the franchise process.'"
You missed out the bits about ileagal immigrants and a non existant salary cap |
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| Quote ="Starbug"
You missed out the bits about ileagal immigrants and a non existant salary cap'"
they werent illegal immigrants, they just didnt hold the correct work permit, something which Crusaders involvement hasnt yet proved to be anything other than completely above board. Neither have they been proved to have broken any Salary Cap they were/should have been under. |
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Quote ="SmokeyTA"they werent illegal immigrants, they just didnt hold the correct work permit, something which Crusaders involvement hasnt yet proved to be anything other than completely above board. Neither have they been proved to have broken any Salary Cap they were/should have been under.'"
Leighton Samuels stated in the press that he was approached, by representatives of the RFL, and asked to set up a club for a place in SL in 3 years. He called it ‘The 3 year plan’.
[i‘The United Kingdom Borders Agency (UKBA) stopped short of issuing criminal charges against the Wales-based club but made it clear that they had been irresponsible in not checking the eligibility of the Australian contingent that includes former Queensland State of Origin centre Josh Hannay.’[/i
www.bigpondsport.com/news/tabid/ ... fault.aspx
They were playing RL here illegally for the Celtic Crusaders. Not one, but six players. Accident? Oversight? No chance! |
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Quote ="SmokeyTA"they werent illegal immigrants, they just didnt hold the correct work permit, something which Crusaders involvement hasnt yet proved to be anything other than completely above board. Neither have they been proved to have broken any Salary Cap they were/should have been under.'"
Leighton Samuels stated in the press that he was approached, by representatives of the RFL, and asked to set up a club for a place in SL in 3 years. He called it ‘The 3 year plan’.
[i‘The United Kingdom Borders Agency (UKBA) stopped short of issuing criminal charges against the Wales-based club but made it clear that they had been irresponsible in not checking the eligibility of the Australian contingent that includes former Queensland State of Origin centre Josh Hannay.’[/i
www.bigpondsport.com/news/tabid/ ... fault.aspx
They were playing RL here illegally for the Celtic Crusaders. Not one, but six players. Accident? Oversight? No chance! | |
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"they werent illegal immigrants, they just didnt hold the correct work permit, something which Crusaders involvement hasnt yet proved to be anything other than completely above board. Neither have they been proved to have broken any Salary Cap they were/should have been under.'"
So they were working in this country legally ?
As for the salary cap , considering we had a 50 % rule at the time and considering the comments Mr Samuels has since made , I'll make my own mind up on that rather than yours or the RFL 's |
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Quote ="Pepe"Leighton Samuels stated in the press that he was approached, by representatives of the RFL, and asked to set up a club for a place in SL in 3 years. He called it ‘The 3 year plan’.
[i‘The United Kingdom Borders Agency (UKBA) stopped short of issuing criminal charges against the Wales-based club but made it clear that they had been irresponsible in not checking the eligibility of the Australian contingent that includes former Queensland State of Origin centre Josh Hannay.’[/i
www.bigpondsport.com/news/tabid/ ... fault.aspx
They were playing RL here illegally for the Celtic Crusaders. Not one, but six players. Accident? Oversight? No chance!'"
So Crusaders committed no offence, thanks for clearing that up. |
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Quote ="Pepe"Leighton Samuels stated in the press that he was approached, by representatives of the RFL, and asked to set up a club for a place in SL in 3 years. He called it ‘The 3 year plan’.
[i‘The United Kingdom Borders Agency (UKBA) stopped short of issuing criminal charges against the Wales-based club but made it clear that they had been irresponsible in not checking the eligibility of the Australian contingent that includes former Queensland State of Origin centre Josh Hannay.’[/i
www.bigpondsport.com/news/tabid/ ... fault.aspx
They were playing RL here illegally for the Celtic Crusaders. Not one, but six players. Accident? Oversight? No chance!'"
So Crusaders committed no offence, thanks for clearing that up. | |
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"In principle, no
this is something completely different
this is something else which is completely different
and this again is completely different
and this is just wrong'"
What is [i'something completely different' [/i supposed to mean?
Not that I actually asked you to answer that post. |
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| Quote ="Pepe"What is [i'something completely different' [/i supposed to mean?
Not that I actually asked you to answer that post.'"
He didn't |
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"So Crusaders committed no offence, thanks for clearing that up.'"
That's not what it says, is it.
They were found guilty of employing these players without the proper paperwork. Ignorance is not a defence. |
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| Quote ="Starbug"So they were working in this country legally ? '" no, they werent, they were working with the incorrect work permits. This however doesnt make them illegal immigrants. They were legally in this country.
Quote
As for the salary cap , considering we had a 50 % rule at the time and considering the comments Mr Samuels has since made , I'll make my own mind up on that rather than yours or the RFL 's'"
Im sure you will. But you do like making things up so its no surprise
im still unclear how two people who pretend to be RL fans can take so much pleasure in death riding an RL club to the point where everything needs to be pejorative and even to the level of simply making things up.
Its sad |
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| Quote ="Pepe"That's not what it says, is it.
They were found guilty of employing these players without the proper paperwork. Ignorance is not a defence.'"
Erm, no they werent. And i would be careful of accusing someone of a criminal offence they havent been proved guilty of.
They were found guilty of nothing, yet. The players were found guilty of not having the correct paperwork.
The Club are now subject to a civil penalty notice for not making the correct checks, with gives them the opportunity to show they did make the correct checks. |
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| Quote ="Pepe"What is [i'something completely different' [/i supposed to mean?
'"
It means it is something different, i.e not the same
It means the issues you brought in werent relevant to the point made. |
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"no, they werent, they were working with the incorrect work permits. This however doesnt make them illegal immigrants. They were legally in this country.
Im sure you will. But you do like making things up so its no surprise
im still unclear how two people who pretend to be RL fans can take so much =#FF0000pleasure in death riding an RL club to the point where everything needs to be pejorative and even to the level of simply making things up.
Its sad'"
Not pleasure at all , however just pretending something didn't happen doesn't mean it didn't , but if enough people pretend it didn't happen , nobody will learn from it and they will make the same mistakes again , and again , and again
What is sad is how people like yourself are willing to act stupid to protect the people supposed to be running our sport |
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| Quote ="Starbug"Not pleasure at all , however just pretending something didn't happen doesn't mean it didn't , but if enough people pretend it didn't happen , nobody will learn from it and they will make the same mistakes again , and again , and again
What is sad is how people like yourself are willing to act stupid to protect the people supposed to be running our sport'"
Or maybe your paranoia is just that. Maybe ignoring the facts and what we know to be true isnt the best way to come to the right outcome like you are!
You have basically admitted you are ignoring what we know to be true because it doesnt fit your image of the RFL and club, and its sad. |
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"It means it is something different, i.e not the same
It means the issues you brought in werent relevant to the point made.'"
It would seem you are outvoted , he asked questions of tb's post that correctly challenged it , you havent answered them , neither has tb we notice , Just as he hasn't answered mine |
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What is sad is that Crusaders were given a much coveted,some may say ill deserved, 3 year SL licence and failed miserably just one third of the way through it.Thats the sad thing.
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"It means it is something different, i.e not the same
It means the issues you brought in werent relevant to the point made.'"
No, you were prevaricating again.
You couldn’t give a simple yes or no, because that would prove my point, so you try something cryptic that could mean anything.
Pathetic, just pathetic. |
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"Or maybe your paranoia is just that. Maybe ignoring the facts and what =#FF0000we know to be true isnt the best way to come to the right outcome like you are!
You have basically admitted you are ignoring =#FF0000what we know to be true because it doesnt fit your image of the RFL and club, and its sad.'"
You dont know the truth any more than anybody else , just as you didn't know anything about the Celtic Crusaders except what you had read on here and in the press , none of what you thought you knew about them was from any kind of personal experience , open your eyes
You are assuming that the RFL dont tell lies |
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| Quote ="GSF"What is sad is that Crusaders were given a much coveted,some may say ill deserved, 3 year SL licence and failed miserably just one third of the way through it.Thats the sad thing.'"
No No No No No , you dont understand . , it was just all a mistake , it was all planned that way from the start , it's just when the licence announcements were made somebody lost a full page of the press release , on it it stated that after one season they would re locate to north Wales .
It was all just a clerical error |
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| Quote ="Starbug"It would seem you are outvoted , he asked questions of tb's post that correctly challenged it , you havent answered them , neither has tb we notice , Just as he hasn't answered mine'"
Because they are quite clearly irrelevant,
the double standard highlighted by TB isnt answered by a completely different comparison. |
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| Quote ="GSF"What is sad is that Crusaders were given a much coveted,some may say ill deserved, 3 year SL licence and failed miserably just one third of the way through it.Thats the sad thing.'"
Correct, it is a terrible shame
You would hope the RL community would rally round them, unfortunately the opposite has been true in a lot of cases |
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| Quote ="Pepe"No, you were prevaricating again.
You couldn’t give a simple yes or no, because that would prove my point, so you try something cryptic that could mean anything.
Pathetic, just pathetic.'"
WTF
Quote ="Pepe"What is [i'something completely different' [/i supposed to mean?
'" there isnt a yes or no answer to this question.
and the statement
[iThis is completely different[/i would only be cryptic to someone who didnt speak English.
Im really not sure how you expect me to clarify it any further.
It is different. It isnt the same. Your comparison is irrelevant to the point made. What you compared didnt address the point. Your Comparison was different to the point made.
Cryptic, Honestly, there is nothing cryptic about it |
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