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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"you havent spoken to the majority of crusaders fans'"
I've read their posts. They are furious.
Quote they havent 'done a widnes' yet, and im sure there were more aims than just that to the criteria'"
Not yet....
Quote its nothing, its a random phrase made up by flatcappers as an excuse to keep expansion sides out of SL. '"
So if you don't think it is meaningful then you won't mind me using the phrase "organic growth" to describe Catalans ascent.
Quote
why semi-pro? why not pro? it worked with Les Catalans so lets make it work with Leicester as well'"
Because it wouldn't work with Leicester.
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"because even though it doesnt explicitly mention Widnes, it is fairly clear that Widnes are the club in mind when Widnes fans are calling Crusaders,
it would be silly to pretend that Widnes and their bias towards them wasnt an intrinsic part to those people forming their opinion on Crusaders and where we go from here'"
The fact that you have decided people opinions and view points based on what club they support, shows that you are quite clearly biased yourself and you are guilty of stereotyping, that much is clear, though i'm sure you'll try to spin it that you arent.
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"like les Catalans did?
so lets get this straight, you want expansion clubs to be prepared like Les Catalans were, but you dont want them to be allowed to prepare like Les Catalans did?'"
Why would they not be "allowed to prepare" if they had performance targets?
Do you think Toulouse aren't doing any preparation despite having no guarantees whatsoever?
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"well it seems they were simply persistant harbingers of doom, as we havent yet lost the welsh franchise'"
I didn't say anyone said that the Wesh franchise was lost, I said that difficulties were predicted.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"also, doesnt the same apply to your club? and Wakefield? Your chief exec has basically come out and said without outside investment your club is unsustainable, and that it is only surviving on his goodwill. That the business model is losing £500k a year and that unless the council or some other kind soul pumps in a fair few million for a new stand you never will be sustainable, with what you have just said regarding the crusaders in mind, how can you justify your inclusion?'"
That's not quite what he said. He did draw attention to the losses made as a whole in SL and said that was not sustainable. He also said that to realise their ambitions Hull KR need to average 10,000 crowds and if those ambitions could not be realised the you need to decide if you want to carry on.
What he did not say (after one year) was, flippin eck I didn't think it would cost that much, see you later guys you're on your own.
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"you havent spoken to the majority of crusaders fans
'"
I did , good bunch but totally clueless as to what is needed to run a SL club , spoke to a few officials and staff as well , they were somewhat nieve , even had the stewards and security claiming they couldn't cope when leigh visited
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"because even though it doesnt explicitly mention Widnes, it is fairly clear that Widnes are the club in mind when Widnes fans are calling Crusaders,
it would be silly to pretend that Widnes and their bias towards them wasnt an intrinsic part to those people forming their opinion on Crusaders and where we go from here'"
What is this sweeping generalization supposed to mean, exactly?
Because Widnes fans support Widnes, they all hate the Crusaders and want them to fail?
Because many fans think Widnes would have been a better bet for a licence in 2009, and possibly 2012, it’s all Widnes’ fault that the Crusaders are struggling?
The problem is, is you and several other , do this in practically every thread on the subject of expansion. They then get fans going on and on about Widnes’ failed bid, and then they complain that Widnes fans never shut-up about it.
If you look on the Widnes board, you’d actually see that we are all – well most anyway – over the licence decisions and are looking forward to our RL in the Championship. We are excited by what is happening at the club and rarely, if ever, mention the Crusaders, except when some major news item concerning that club hits the headlines – so the same as every other club. Few, if any, Widnes fans want the Crusaders SL place and are prepared to wait and see what happens in 2012.
It’s only when , like you, constantly go on about our club, disparaging it and insulting its fans on the VT, that Widnes fans respond. You, and several others on here, are obsessed with Widnes on an industrial level and can’t seem to get through the day without going on and on about them. It’s far more than just being incidental to the topic, as you would have us believe.
It would seem you are far more obsessed about the 2009 licence decision than any Widnes supporter could ever be.
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"you havent spoken to the majority of crusaders fans
'"
Had you spoken to any of them before this season ? , how about Gerald McCarthy or John dixon ? , any of the players perhaps ? , people living in Bridgend ?
Or were all your opinions based on the blind faith in the RFL you seem to possess ?
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| Quote ="pyeman"The fact that you have decided people opinions and view points based on what club they support, shows that you are quite clearly biased yourself and you are guilty of stereotyping, that much is clear, though i'm sure you'll try to spin it that you arent.'"
no, ill readily admit it
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"no, ill readily admit it'"
Then your opinions have no objectivity, and as such have little value.
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| Quote ="Hedgehog King"I've read their posts. They are furious.'" you mean the two who post on here,
Quote Not yet....'" and maybe never
Quote So if you don't think it is meaningful then you won't mind me using the phrase "organic growth" to describe Catalans ascent.'" why would you want to? if you know the phrase is meaningless then the whole sentence you are putting is meaningless, and would apply to Les Catalans as much as it applies to Crusaders
you may as well put that Les Catalans success is because of their sausage based business plan, along with their custard approach to youth development. But you would just end up sounding like that annoying rowntrees advert
Quote Because it wouldn't work with Leicester.'" if we are just making random statements, Yes it would
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| Quote ="pyeman"Then your opinions have no objectivity, and as such have little value.'"
thats a huge and strange jump in logic
because i appreciate that SOME Widnes fans often approach the subject of expansion with a victim mentality, along with a certain level of paranoia, and that they among others will jump on any opportunity to bag expansion/the RFL because of this doesnt mean I approach the question in any different way.
In the same way i appreciate the BNP will approach the subject of immigration with a certain level of paranoia and xenophobia it doesnt mean i approach it in any different way
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| Quote ="Hedgehog King"Why would they not be "allowed to prepare" if they had performance targets?
Do you think Toulouse aren't doing any preparation despite having no guarantees whatsoever?'" im saying their preparation is more difficult because they have no guarantees whatsoever, and they would have a much better chance of success if they had these guarantees, Like Les Catalans did
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| Quote ="pyeman"Then your opinions have no objectivity, and as such have little value.'"
When did they ever?
His posting style has always been a case of out-posting everybody else until they give up.
Let's look at the facts, Crusaders are struggling and have been a disaster of late. People are wanting to discuss their chances in the next round of SL applications and yet he is spending his time talking about mythical Widnes fans. Looking at this thread Widnes seem to have a hell of a lot of supporters from places all over the world.
Hedgehog King I'd give up now, Smokey will argue for days about wording even if he is completely and utterly wrong. I've seen him arguing about what a term means with people who actually use that word in their jobs on a day to day basis. He always knows better.
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"thats a huge and strange jump in logic
because i appreciate that SOME Widnes fans often approach the subject of expansion with a victim mentality, along with a certain level of paranoia, and that they among others will jump on any opportunity to bag expansion/the RFL because of this doesnt mean I approach the question in any different way.
In the same way i appreciate the BNP will approach the subject of immigration with a certain level of paranoia and xenophobia it doesnt mean i approach it in any different way'"
You're now comparing Widnes supporters’ views on expansion in the same light as BNP Nazis view on immigration?
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| Quote ="Barnacle Bill"I didn't say anyone said that the Wesh franchise was lost, I said that difficulties were predicted.'" Of course they were, even a staunch expansionist like myself was more than happy to admit it wouldnt be easy
Quote That's not quite what he said. He did draw attention to the losses made as a whole in SL and said that was not sustainable. He also said that to realise their ambitions Hull KR need to average 10,000 crowds and if those ambitions could not be realised the you need to decide if you want to carry on.'" here are quotes from Mr Hudgell, [i"I do anticipate some improved income streams and further cost cutting measures over the short to medium term. However, to fundamentally reach the break even and positive position, we need to play in front of a core 10,000 audience."[/i
[i
Asked about the club's financial support and its ability to underwrite the losses, Hudgell said: "It's a fact of life you take a key person out of half the Super League clubs and their viability comes immediately into question. We are no different.[/i
[i"Hull KR now need to say to the people that run the city, 'Look, we need to get to a 10,000 core audience and to do that we need to develop our facilities - and we need your help'.
"If we can't do that, it throws up the question, 'What is the extent of our ambitions?'
"In which case, do I want to carry on?"[/i
read into that what you want
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| Quote ="Pepe"You're now comparing Widnes supporters’ views on expansion in the same light as BNP Nazis view on immigration?
'"
im not comparing anything, there is no comparison there,
it takes a strange level of paranoia to believe i have
it was simply an example to illustrate a point
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Quote ="Maximus Decimus"When did they ever?
His posting style has always been a case of out-posting everybody else until they give up.
Let's look at the facts, Crusaders are struggling and have been a disaster of late. People are wanting to discuss their chances in the next round of SL applications and yet he is spending his time talking about mythical Widnes fans. Looking at this thread Widnes seem to have a hell of a lot of supporters from places all over the world.
Hedgehog King I'd give up now, Smokey will argue for days about wording even if he is completely and utterly wrong. I've seen him arguing about what a term means with people who actually use that word in their jobs on a day to day basis. He always knows better.'"
werent you and your whole family never having anything to do with RL again after Widnes' exclusion?
and it seems this world wide love in has missed Wakefield viewtopic.php?f=33&t=438911&start=0
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Quote ="Maximus Decimus"When did they ever?
His posting style has always been a case of out-posting everybody else until they give up.
Let's look at the facts, Crusaders are struggling and have been a disaster of late. People are wanting to discuss their chances in the next round of SL applications and yet he is spending his time talking about mythical Widnes fans. Looking at this thread Widnes seem to have a hell of a lot of supporters from places all over the world.
Hedgehog King I'd give up now, Smokey will argue for days about wording even if he is completely and utterly wrong. I've seen him arguing about what a term means with people who actually use that word in their jobs on a day to day basis. He always knows better.'"
werent you and your whole family never having anything to do with RL again after Widnes' exclusion?
and it seems this world wide love in has missed Wakefield viewtopic.php?f=33&t=438911&start=0
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"im not comparing anything, there is no comparison there,
it takes a strange level of paranoia to believe i have
it was simply an example to illustrate a point'"
You could've illustrated your point without using such extreme comparisons. They were so extreme that it actually rendered whatever point you were trying to get across, completely meaningless.
It had to be a diabolical comparison didn't it.
I'm not paranoid, I just see you for what you are.
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"werent you and your whole family never having anything to do with RL again after Widnes' exclusion?'"
Making up facts now are we, didn't think that was in your repertoire.
Seeing as though the forum goes back that far, do you care to find where that was said?
You're a joke Smokey, everything that you asked for and abused people about came true and it failed, big time. Will you admit that you were wrong? Never, you'll continue abusing people over something else.
As I pointed out you'll carry on talking rubbish until the other person gives up so I've said my piece and that is basically that you are a cock. I'm sure they knew that anyway.
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| Quote ="Pepe"You could've illustrated your point without using such extreme comparisons. They were so extreme that it actually rendered whatever point you were trying to get across, completely meaningless.
It had to be a diabolical comparison didn't it.
I'm not paranoid, I just see you for what you are.'"
well yes, it was an extreme example, used to illustrate the huge jump in Logic pyeman had taken,
an extreme example was used to highlight the size of the jump in logic (i.e that the jump in logic was also extreme)
though i do like the [iim not paranoid they are just out to get me defence[/i thats always fun to watch
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| Quote ="Maximus Decimus"Making up facts now are we, didn't think that was in your repertoire.'" how can a question be a made up fact?
Quote Seeing as though the forum goes back that far, do you care to find where that was said? '" not really, it seemed quicker to ask you
Quote You're a joke Smokey, everything that you asked for and abused people about came true and it failed, big time. Will you admit that you were wrong? [iNever, you'll continue abusing people over something else[/i.
As I pointed out you'll carry on talking rubbish until the other person gives up so [iI've said my piece and that is basically that you are a cock.[/i I'm sure they knew that anyway.'"
and you dont see the hypocrisy here
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"im not comparing anything, there is no comparison there,
'"
You may not be making a comparison but you are undoubtedly drawing a parallel - an offensive and insulting one at that.
But I expect no better from the man who has never been wrong, is never wrong and never will be wrong.
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That'll be more about a Wakey fan 5hitting himself over his own clubs chances, therefore pointing to other club's that have little or no chance of a licence being considered before Widnes,
It would be very easy to reverse this arguement with his own club.
I guess this makes everything you've said right. I bet you really think that, don't you?
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That'll be more about a Wakey fan 5hitting himself over his own clubs chances, therefore pointing to other club's that have little or no chance of a licence being considered before Widnes,
It would be very easy to reverse this arguement with his own club.
I guess this makes everything you've said right. I bet you really think that, don't you?
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| Smokey , you missed this one , not like you to somehow miss a question
Quote SmokeyTA wrote:you havent spoken to the majority of crusaders fans'"
Had you spoken to any of them before this season ? , how about Gerald McCarthy or John dixon ? , any of the players perhaps ? , people living in Bridgend ?
Or were all your opinions based on the blind faith in the RFL you seem to possess ?
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| Quote ="Pepe"That'll be more about a Wakey fan 5hitting himself over his own clubs chances, therefore pointing to other club's that have little or no chance of a licence being considered before Widnes,
It would be very easy to reverse this arguement with his own club.
I guess this makes everything you've said right. I bet you really think that, don't you?
'"
surely you wouldnt be hypocritical enough to be dismissing a Wakefield fans views on Widnes because he was a Wakefield fan? Surely you wouldnt be making sweeping generalisations regarding the reason a Wakefield fan came to a certain opinion being because of their self-interest?
crikey, thats like saying a Widnes fans views on expansion are coloured by their self-interest
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