Funnily enough in the 2015 GF Sinfield turned down kickable penalties on more than one occasion when the scores were level at 6-6 and we scored from the resulting sets, guess you just have to feel how the game is going

Totally agree mate, for some reason some fans (Wire fans especially) ignore the fact that in over 100 years of rugby league, the league leaders were only declared champions in a brief 25 year period between the 70s-90s

The fact is also ignored that before the change in the 1970s Leeds were league leaders and failed to win the title on at least 3 occasions IIRC, and I dont remember Wigan rolling over for us in 2015 because we were the best team

Having said that I do fully accept that we have 'stole' Cas' title this year and I fully expect them to win at least one in the next 2/3 years

Fair point about Sinfield at Wembley, but the two finals are completely different I reckon. I've been to both now multiple times with us and a couple of times as a neutral and the intensity of the occasion is far greater at the Grand Final than the Challenge Cup Final. Wembley feels like a day out that everyone is happy to be involved in. Old Trafford is far more tense. The worst example ever of not taking two was Wires at 16-2 (I think) up in the 2013 GF. I was screaming for it and couldn't believe we passed them up. I acknowledge no one could really have predicted the nightmare couple of minutes that followed which completely swung the pendulum of the game, but even so, there's not a chance Sinfield or Pat Richards would have allowed that. They'd have marched straight over and demanded the tee.

I know people always say "Play the game, not the occasion", but I don't really agree. Games during the season are not the same as the Grand Final and you don't play it the same way. I think Wires tried to, certainly in 2012 and 2013, and Cas probably thought they could too. Wigan, Leeds and the great Bradford and Saints teams manage the game far better.

I'd got my head in my hands when we refused the 2 points. Madness!! The game could have had a totally different complexion if we'd have taken them. Who refuses an easy 2 points less than 3 minutes into a Grand Final in the rain?! arghhhhhhhhh!! I'm still shaking my head about it now. When big games come along, rightly or wrongly, I always think 'what would Sinfield do?' (one of the best big game players I've ever seen) - he'd have taken them. Would have settled the nerves and got the scoreboard ticking. We didn't handle the occasion, pure and simple - we bottled it last night. Us fans turned up, the team didn't. It's been a great season for us though, and I've had more than my moneys worth of entertainment out of my season ticket. The transition from a good team into a champion team isn't something that happens overnight, and it is far from easy. Hopefully we can learn from this experience and be a better team for it over the coming seasons. Well done Leeds, the better side by far on the night and deserved to lift the trophy. I'm sure our time will come at some point.

I reckon Cas lost focus at the start of the Super 8's only needing 1 or 2 wins for the play offs, lost to Saints in the 1st round, struggled for half the game against Salford in the 2nd round. Then had to push along a bit to get the LLS at the same time the other teams were knocking each other out to get top 4. Guaranteed a home draw in the playoffs job was half done and players were rested causing different playing combinations.

Come play off time, Leeds-Hull-Saints had a bit of momentum and the semi finals were probably the toughest matches for intensity and pressure, Cas were probably slightly undercooked for this final in terms of mental toughness and basically choked on the atmosphere of Old Trafford.

2 of the 3 times Cas turned down the 2 points on offer they almost scored so if we're playing ifs buts and maybes - there's 12 points instead of 6 that were bombed.

McGuire dislodged the ball from Eden just as he was about to dive over and the other was disallowed for an obstruction where nobody was obstructed (granted we never got to see if the ball was actually grounded anyway....)

Anyone know anyone good at Tattoo removals?

Just have 'NOT' tattooed at the top.

Or replace 'WINNERS' with 'CHOKERS'.

Either way, it'd be accurate.

Could change the “F” to an “R” - might be unpalatable to the owner but at least it would be accurate

Might be a long shot, but does anyone happen to know what the music was that the players walked out to?

Jungle by X Ambassadors & Jamie N Commons, according to the Super League Twitter account.

It's not though is it, it is all about Old Trafford and the Grand Final - otherwise we wouldn't have the structure that we have. We wouldn't have the playoffs, we wouldn't have the fans/players not really caring about the LLS, we wouldn't have players crawling off the operating table to play in a semi final.

So you can bang on as much as you like saying it's not all about the GF - but surely that's all it's about? Do you think Cas are sat at home now saying "don't worry lads, we played the best rugby all year, so we know we were the best - well done us!" What will be remembered in 5 years time - that Leeds won the GF.

It 100% is all about the Grand Final and I have no problem with that. If we play great rugby all year and win the LLS by the sort of margin Cas did but then lose the GF then obviously I'll enjoy the year but once again end up on the floor in October. If we scrape into fourth and win the GF it will be the best night I've had watching RL by a million miles and render every blip along the way irrelevant.

People saying the rounds don't matter are brainless though because obviously they do. They mattered last year when we won the LLS and put ourselves in pole position to reach the GF, and they mattered this year when we lost a lot of them and ended up in the Middle 8. Bit of a difference in end result caused by results gained in those supposedly pointless weekly rounds eh?

I think the problem with RL mindset is the constant need for games to matter and constant complaints when they don't. This was easily highlighted by the "Every Minute Matters" slogan for the Super 8s that was swiftly dispelled when people could point out a few games with little riding on them. Again though, that happens in every sport under every format and there is no way around it. See Arsene Wenger's comments about teams being "on the beach" towards the end of the last Premier League season as proof of that.

I acknowledge that the difference between finishing first and finishing second in Super League isn't all that great, but as soon as you start slipping below that then there becomes huge differences in what each position ultimately gets you. Therefore without a doubt the weekly rounds matter, and getting yourself primed and ready for the two games that follow should you qualify for them requires the stuff champions are made of.

If my team won or lost the grand final I would be over the moon If we won and happy to have reached the final if we lost

Nah I used to think that when we were nowhere near the reckoning for them. Once you actually get there losing is devastating.

That's what I thought before we dropped 18 balls and disgraced ourselves.

Powell has now taken teams to 6 finals - 5 times as favourites - and won 1. Maybe, just maybe it's him who can't cope with the pressure?

I do think if this whole drama hadn't have happened, we'd have won. And we'd be having a very different conversation.

And if my Auntie had.....

Turning down the penalties early on smacks of poor decision making by someone. Maybe the first decision was made on the pitch but after that?

Completely agree re: the penalties, but people underestimate how much rugby is a mental game as much as a physical one. The body language of the entire squad on Saturday was terrible - can only assume why!!

I'll just judge him on his time as Cas where he's taken us to 2 finals. 1 as underdogs 1 as very slight favourites where he was informed 2 days before the final that he would be without his star full back for the game giving 1 training session for someone else to play full back.He then saw his side make 18 handling errors. He wasn't the 1 repeatedly dropping the ball. I know Fev fans like to stick the knife into Powell regarding finals but how have Fev coped since Powell left in comparison to 2010-13. At Cas in 3 years we've reached the challenge cup final a grand final and won the league leaders shield. No other coach could have done that at Cas.

But you might not have even been there or topped the league if one of your best players wasn't cheating.
So tough.
Leeds would have won anyway they were better, it might have been a bit closer that's all.

I think the decision to pass up the early 2 points set the tone for the Cas performance. Lack of big game nous. I think it's all very nice wanting to play free flowing, attacking rugby on a wet autumn night, but Leeds did the sensible thing and played percentages rugby. There was a point where McShane went for a snatched one handed pick up from the ptb and dropped it, he may do that move all the time, but in the conditions a solid pass would have been better.

Hardaker is a tool but it doesn't enhance his performance.

Thank you!