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| What a lot of RL supporters do not realise is that Owen Farrell will not be the highest paid player in his team, that would be the starting props given the demands of the position. RU props do not become top class rugby league players so any match played under RU laws would have to be with uncontested scrums. Without contested scrums it would not be RU. Any RL v RU challenge would have three possible variants. 1) Tweaked RL 2) Tweaked RU or 3) Hybrid. Interestingly enough the third option could have been a real possibility if the decision making process in RL since it's creation had made different choices. Every so often someone comes up with a set of hybrid rules which usually will get mild interest in the press usually because of some moneyman eyeing up the international wealth of RU.
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"And if it were played to full Union rules, the "league" side would only ever see the ball to kick it off to the opposition.
Same shaped ball but, significantly different games.
The mauls and scrums would actually be dangerous for the League lads to take part in.'"
They could, but also trying to divert play away from those aspects surely would be how you deny the opposition the ball/superiority. You don't play to the oppositions strengths do you? And if a union side were to play their normal side a significant part of their side would be gassed early if the league side plays to its strengths. So the union side may forgo the heavier 'no necks' and thus the 'danger' is not really as much as one might think.
In any case a basic understanding of the rules goes a long way, people still make the flawed assumption that union is a complex game with 'dark arts' in the forwards that no-one can decipher, this is simply untrue.
Changing how sport is played occurs all the time, look at how NZAB changed the breakdown/rucks, not committing players so having more defenders than the opposition had attackers, forcing the opponents to make errors. Tackling correctly in the first instance goes a long, long way, union forwards have, even at international level of going to ground with barely a finger on them, being able to 'jackal' that ball back is not beyond the realms of a RL player, the ability to know when you can/cannot compete to take the ball away isn't rocket science, using superior fitness across the team can mean you arrive at the breakdown more often than the opposition, a big prop getting a few metres isolating themselves happens all the time, what happens, the defenders get to them first, the prop holds on, penalty.
The more you use your defence to thwart in the way you know how means more ball for you. Another example, holding up players from going to ground and pushing attackers backwards is familiar on a RL pitch, this gives you the ball back but you try to avoid scrums and mauls.
It's far from as dangerous and as simplistic as you make out IMO.
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| Quote ="Levrier"What a lot of RL supporters do not realise is that Owen Farrell will not be the highest paid player in his team, that would be the starting props given the demands of the position. RU props do not become top class rugby league players so any match played under RU laws would have to be with uncontested scrums. Without contested scrums it would not be RU. Any RL v RU challenge would have three possible variants. 1) Tweaked RL 2) Tweaked RU or 3) Hybrid. Interestingly enough the third option could have been a real possibility if the decision making process in RL since it's creation had made different choices. Every so often someone comes up with a set of hybrid rules which usually will get mild interest in the press usually because of some moneyman eyeing up the international wealth of RU.'"
You need to back that assumption up, and the reality is not what you're saying at all.
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| Quote ="48756c6c20 524c4643"You need to back that assumption up, and the reality is not what you're saying at all.
'"
Not an assumption but an imperfect quote. Of course you might be right. I know nothing except what I hear and the statement about Owen Farrell being paid less than the (open side) prop was made by David Flatman on The Gallagher Premiership show so he might have been having a laugh. The importance of the front row cannot be underestimated in R U but at Saracens the Vunipolas were probably behind Farrell with Itoje signing a deal to earn more but all of those figures were uncertain because of the shenanigans.
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| To be fair. I reckon a premiership team would have a good chance of beating a SL team at rugby league
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| Quote ="Steph Curry"To be fair. I reckon a premiership team would have a good chance of beating a SL team at rugby league'"
Lol. Nice one.
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| What did come across on the rerun was how much better the marketing was, a busy Maine Road, with both Bath, Wigan and neutral fans, fireworks and a good atmosphere before kickoff.
We struggle to sell any RL games to anyone but the hardcore these days.
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| Quote ="Steph Curry"To be fair. I reckon a premiership team would have a good chance of beating a SL team at rugby league'"
No chance.
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| Quote ="Steph Curry"To be fair. I reckon a premiership team would have a good chance of beating a SL team at rugby league'"
Could you expand on that, I'm sure a modified RU team might give a decent account of themselves, but to infer that a premiership team could take on and have a good chance of a beating a SL, on what basis are you making that.
Let us know how that might happen, you seem to make a lot of statements on this site with not much if any substance.
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| Its simple. People on here still think it’s the 80s when the grim reality rugby league has gone backwards in the uk. In fact, standard has fallen off a cliff whilst RU has far overtaken uk with regards skill levels.
There are millions of backs in the RU premiership that would walk into SL teams
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| Yeh like that waste of space at Warrington
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| Quote ="Steph Curry"Its simple. People on here still think it’s the 80s when the grim reality rugby league has gone backwards in the uk. In fact, standard has fallen off a cliff whilst RU has far overtaken uk with regards skill levels.
There are millions of backs in the RU premiership that would walk into SL teams'"
It's not just about Skill level though is it it. A rugby Union side will struggle simply on defence.
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| Quote ="Steph Curry"Its simple. People on here still think it’s the 80s when the grim reality rugby league has gone backwards in the uk. In fact, standard has fallen off a cliff whilst RU has far overtaken uk with regards skill levels.
There are millions of backs in the RU premiership that would walk into SL teams'"
A RL 13 would hammer any RU13 that tried to play League, it's not even a contest and equally and more emphatically, a Union 15 would keep a League 15 scoreless if they tried to play a proper game of Union.
When you consider that the likes of Burgess and SBW play centre in Union and they are/were very useful forwards in League, that tells you all that you need to know.
League is massively stronger in basic passing, agility and speed but Union is more about forward domination and there is no one playing RL that could play prop in a top Union side, no one.
I know that there have been attempts to have cross code games in the past and the RL side usually do quite well when they play the 40 mins of RL but, when its time to play Union, lineouts and scrums are not used or, are not used competitively.
Having said that there are players in both codes that could fit into a team from the other code but, League just doesnt have the personnel to make a top class RU 15, end of and the Union boys aren't good enough or quick enough or even fit enough to play RL, at least not without a substantial amount of time to adjust.
Same shaped ball, totally different game.
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| Comparing RL with RU is like comparing basketball and netball.
Both use a ball, the scoring mechanism is similar, and the game which has more players in the team is predominantly played by big girls
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Quote ="wrencat1873"A RL 13 would hammer any RU13 that tried to play League, it's not even a contest and equally and more emphatically, a Union 15 would keep a League 15 scoreless if they tried to play a proper game of Union.
When you consider that the likes of Burgess and SBW play centre in Union and they are/were very useful forwards in League, that tells you all that you need to know.
League is massively stronger in basic passing, agility and speed but Union is more about forward domination and there is no one playing RL that could play prop in a top Union side, no one.
I know that there have been attempts to have cross code games in the past and the RL side usually do quite well when they play the 40 mins of RL but, when its time to play Union, lineouts and scrums are not used or, are not used competitively.
Having said that there are players in both codes that could fit into a team from the other code but, League just doesnt have the personnel to make a top class RU 15, end of and the Union boys aren't good enough or quick enough or even fit enough to play RL, at least not without a substantial amount of time to adjust.
Same shaped ball, totally different game.'"
no they wouldn't, you've already stated "the "league" side would only ever see the ball to kick it off to the opposition." without any real reasoning behind that statement, for one thing that suggests you're saying the union team would play 100% error free which is and define a 'proper' game of union?
A proper game is one played within the rules/laws, just because a team doesn't employ certain aspects, or attempts to deflect away does not mean it isn't a proper game! You don't think individuals or teams in any sport attempt to stray away from their weaknesses when playing teams where they know the opponent/s have a distinct advantage?
With all due respect have you even watched union in say the last 10 years? Ever observed how Argentina in the 2015 RUWC played a different style that was passing orientated (and destroyed Ireland doing so), ever watched Japan who aren't the biggest side by any stretch of the imagination and their style of play and beat a fancied South Africa? So your point about SBW and SB playing centre or whatever is neither here nor there, the only players of much size differential is no necks at prop and the second rows.
All that said the main problem league players would have playing union aside from rolling mauls and certain technical aspects, would IMO be the tackling style, the up top grab tackle as is so common in the last 20 years and more is more likely to get you penalised. Absolutely anything around the neck gets pinged, relearning how to bend your back properly would be required for a large proportion, there are some that can and still do it every week but they are few and far between.
I just think you imagine a constant rolling maul/scrum/lineout fest and that simply is not the case, and you can combat a rolling maul by simply not engaging to the ball carrier (who will have their back to you for the most part), without which a maul cannot be legally formed, this will totally stymie some teams and defending them becomes so much easier. This is one example from a few years back explaining it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGFDYIyxXUg This means a league team will not be put in danger and has the ability to stop a rolling maul without needing equally big men.
That's the thing about union, it has its complexities and nuances that can be used to negate teams and play to your own strengths, in league it's fairly simple in the tackle/contact area that there's nowhere to go, this does make that aspect easier for a union team to compete in some sense but other aspects of league are still significantly different.
So of course the union team would win and league likewise in their respective codes, but you keep saying that the union team would have the ball from 1st minute to last and keep the league team scoreless is patently nonsense and means you don't really even understand union properly at all or its laws nor indeed how to adapt tactics to suit your team within a game. I think you underestimate a league team to adapt which is disrespectful at best.
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Quote ="wrencat1873"A RL 13 would hammer any RU13 that tried to play League, it's not even a contest and equally and more emphatically, a Union 15 would keep a League 15 scoreless if they tried to play a proper game of Union.
When you consider that the likes of Burgess and SBW play centre in Union and they are/were very useful forwards in League, that tells you all that you need to know.
League is massively stronger in basic passing, agility and speed but Union is more about forward domination and there is no one playing RL that could play prop in a top Union side, no one.
I know that there have been attempts to have cross code games in the past and the RL side usually do quite well when they play the 40 mins of RL but, when its time to play Union, lineouts and scrums are not used or, are not used competitively.
Having said that there are players in both codes that could fit into a team from the other code but, League just doesnt have the personnel to make a top class RU 15, end of and the Union boys aren't good enough or quick enough or even fit enough to play RL, at least not without a substantial amount of time to adjust.
Same shaped ball, totally different game.'"
no they wouldn't, you've already stated "the "league" side would only ever see the ball to kick it off to the opposition." without any real reasoning behind that statement, for one thing that suggests you're saying the union team would play 100% error free which is and define a 'proper' game of union?
A proper game is one played within the rules/laws, just because a team doesn't employ certain aspects, or attempts to deflect away does not mean it isn't a proper game! You don't think individuals or teams in any sport attempt to stray away from their weaknesses when playing teams where they know the opponent/s have a distinct advantage?
With all due respect have you even watched union in say the last 10 years? Ever observed how Argentina in the 2015 RUWC played a different style that was passing orientated (and destroyed Ireland doing so), ever watched Japan who aren't the biggest side by any stretch of the imagination and their style of play and beat a fancied South Africa? So your point about SBW and SB playing centre or whatever is neither here nor there, the only players of much size differential is no necks at prop and the second rows.
All that said the main problem league players would have playing union aside from rolling mauls and certain technical aspects, would IMO be the tackling style, the up top grab tackle as is so common in the last 20 years and more is more likely to get you penalised. Absolutely anything around the neck gets pinged, relearning how to bend your back properly would be required for a large proportion, there are some that can and still do it every week but they are few and far between.
I just think you imagine a constant rolling maul/scrum/lineout fest and that simply is not the case, and you can combat a rolling maul by simply not engaging to the ball carrier (who will have their back to you for the most part), without which a maul cannot be legally formed, this will totally stymie some teams and defending them becomes so much easier. This is one example from a few years back explaining it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGFDYIyxXUg This means a league team will not be put in danger and has the ability to stop a rolling maul without needing equally big men.
That's the thing about union, it has its complexities and nuances that can be used to negate teams and play to your own strengths, in league it's fairly simple in the tackle/contact area that there's nowhere to go, this does make that aspect easier for a union team to compete in some sense but other aspects of league are still significantly different.
So of course the union team would win and league likewise in their respective codes, but you keep saying that the union team would have the ball from 1st minute to last and keep the league team scoreless is patently nonsense and means you don't really even understand union properly at all or its laws nor indeed how to adapt tactics to suit your team within a game. I think you underestimate a league team to adapt which is disrespectful at best.
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| Quote ="48756c6c20 524c4643"Retallick at 12, doesn't have the engine nor the hands IMHO, from these shores I'd have Tom Curry, the current England RU no.7, great engine, great speed, good hands, tackles without fear and is very committed, he'd be perfect for league, I'd say he's a vastly better version of Liam Farrell'"
I'd put Justin Tipuric in above both of them.
Retallick is a donkey in RU. He'd be a joke in RL.
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Quote ="48756c6c20 524c4643"no they wouldn't, you've already stated "the "league" side would only ever see the ball to kick it off to the opposition." without any real reasoning behind that statement, for one thing that suggests you're saying the union team would play 100% error free which is
and define a 'proper' game of union?
A proper game is one played within the rules/laws, just because a team doesn't employ certain aspects, or attempts to deflect away does not mean it isn't a proper game! You don't think individuals or teams in any sport attempt to stray away from their weaknesses when playing teams where they know the opponent/s have a distinct advantage?
With all due respect have you even watched union in say the last 10 years? Ever observed how Argentina in the 2015 RUWC played a different style that was passing orientated (and destroyed Ireland doing so), ever watched Japan who aren't the biggest side by any stretch of the imagination and their style of play and beat a fancied South Africa? So your point about SBW and SB playing centre or whatever is neither here nor there, the only players of much size differential is no necks at prop and the second rows.
All that said the main problem league players would have playing union aside from rolling mauls and certain technical aspects, would IMO be the tackling style, the up top grab tackle as is so common in the last 20 years and more is more likely to get you penalised. Absolutely anything around the neck gets pinged, relearning how to bend your back properly would be required for a large proportion, there are some that can and still do it every week but they are few and far between.
I just think you imagine a constant rolling maul/scrum/lineout fest and that simply is not the case, and you can combat a rolling maul by simply not engaging to the ball carrier (who will have their back to you for the most part), without which a maul cannot be legally formed, this will totally stymie some teams and defending them becomes so much easier. This is one example from a few years back explaining it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGFDYIyxXUg This means a league team will not be put in danger and has the ability to stop a rolling maul without needing equally big men.
That's the thing about union, it has its complexities and nuances that can be used to negate teams and play to your own strengths, in league it's fairly simple in the tackle/contact area that there's nowhere to go, this does make that aspect easier for a union team to compete in some sense but other aspects of league are still significantly different.
So of course the union team would win and league likewise in their respective codes, but you keep saying that the union team would have the ball from 1st minute to last and keep the league team scoreless is patently nonsense and means you don't really even understand union properly at all or its laws nor indeed how to adapt tactics to suit your team within a game. I think you underestimate a league team to adapt which is disrespectful at best.'"
Oh really ??
Lets start with one simple question, would they have contested scrums when the Union rules were being used ?
The last time there was game between Union and League, there weren't contested scrums and IIRC the lineouts were removed / altered.
Union dominated their 40 mins and League amassed even more points during the half when League was played.
I would argue that Union has become faster in that time and the gap may have closed a little for a Union side playing the 13 a side game but, assuming that you played the game between a top Union side and a top League side, the game would be just as I described .
Come back when you've thought about it properly.
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Quote ="48756c6c20 524c4643"no they wouldn't, you've already stated "the "league" side would only ever see the ball to kick it off to the opposition." without any real reasoning behind that statement, for one thing that suggests you're saying the union team would play 100% error free which is
and define a 'proper' game of union?
A proper game is one played within the rules/laws, just because a team doesn't employ certain aspects, or attempts to deflect away does not mean it isn't a proper game! You don't think individuals or teams in any sport attempt to stray away from their weaknesses when playing teams where they know the opponent/s have a distinct advantage?
With all due respect have you even watched union in say the last 10 years? Ever observed how Argentina in the 2015 RUWC played a different style that was passing orientated (and destroyed Ireland doing so), ever watched Japan who aren't the biggest side by any stretch of the imagination and their style of play and beat a fancied South Africa? So your point about SBW and SB playing centre or whatever is neither here nor there, the only players of much size differential is no necks at prop and the second rows.
All that said the main problem league players would have playing union aside from rolling mauls and certain technical aspects, would IMO be the tackling style, the up top grab tackle as is so common in the last 20 years and more is more likely to get you penalised. Absolutely anything around the neck gets pinged, relearning how to bend your back properly would be required for a large proportion, there are some that can and still do it every week but they are few and far between.
I just think you imagine a constant rolling maul/scrum/lineout fest and that simply is not the case, and you can combat a rolling maul by simply not engaging to the ball carrier (who will have their back to you for the most part), without which a maul cannot be legally formed, this will totally stymie some teams and defending them becomes so much easier. This is one example from a few years back explaining it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGFDYIyxXUg This means a league team will not be put in danger and has the ability to stop a rolling maul without needing equally big men.
That's the thing about union, it has its complexities and nuances that can be used to negate teams and play to your own strengths, in league it's fairly simple in the tackle/contact area that there's nowhere to go, this does make that aspect easier for a union team to compete in some sense but other aspects of league are still significantly different.
So of course the union team would win and league likewise in their respective codes, but you keep saying that the union team would have the ball from 1st minute to last and keep the league team scoreless is patently nonsense and means you don't really even understand union properly at all or its laws nor indeed how to adapt tactics to suit your team within a game. I think you underestimate a league team to adapt which is disrespectful at best.'"
Oh really ??
Lets start with one simple question, would they have contested scrums when the Union rules were being used ?
The last time there was game between Union and League, there weren't contested scrums and IIRC the lineouts were removed / altered.
Union dominated their 40 mins and League amassed even more points during the half when League was played.
I would argue that Union has become faster in that time and the gap may have closed a little for a Union side playing the 13 a side game but, assuming that you played the game between a top Union side and a top League side, the game would be just as I described .
Come back when you've thought about it properly.
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| Quote ="Steph Curry"Its simple. People on here still think it’s the 80s when the grim reality rugby league has gone backwards in the uk. In fact, standard has fallen off a cliff whilst RU has far overtaken uk with regards skill levels.
There are millions of backs in the RU premiership that would walk into SL teams'"
S.
They'd walk in and walk straight back out.
And 'millions'? They must have very big squads.
Go on, I'll bite, name 10 English Premiership RU backs who'd walk into SL teams.
Then pass those names onto Warrington, who might want to swap one for Luther Burrell.
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"Same shaped ball, totally different game.'"
Here endeth the discussion.
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| Yep. The League half would be 50-6, the Union Half 50-7. Union would win by 57-56 and you'd learn nothing.
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| Quote ="Pumpetypump"Yep. The League half would be 50-6, the Union Half 50-7. Union would win by 57-56 and you'd learn nothing.'"
I think that League won the last one at St Helens ?
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Jan 2013 | 12 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Oct 2024 | Oct 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
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Milestone Years |
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Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
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Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 5392 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 1970 | Jun 2022 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
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Milestone Years |
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Location |
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Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
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They are renown for bottling it
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They are renown for bottling it
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Captain | 1242 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Sep 2018 | 6 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
May 2021 | May 2021 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
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Milestone Years |
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Location |
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Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
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| So sale are the current champions
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Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 17983 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Apr 2011 | 14 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
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Milestone Years |
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Location |
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Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
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| Quote ="Steph Curry"So sale are the current champions'"
Do you feel better now, that's nice.
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