One major obstacle to referee recruitment and retention is the amount of abuse they receive from touchlines, especially from adults at junior games.

I Hull & District, when I was refereeing, it didn't matter what Grade you were, you were still expected to referee amateur games at youth and open age levels. In fact when Lindop was in charge of refs, if your society reported that you were refusing amateur games, you were suspended from the officials' roster.

Even then, mid-week school games were often played with one team's teacher refereeing, simply because of work commitments. I was fortunate enough to be able to blag the odd Wednesday afternoon off work and officiate at these matches. It was worth it just to see the look of gratitude on the faces of players and coaches, knowing that they had an official completely unconnected with either team.

If you're looking for the solution, you have the answer already. OK, you may not be able to take the field yourself but that doesn't stop you helping to improve things. A start could be made by encouraging the players and spectators not to abuse the officials, if that doesn't work, then the club should look at issuing touchline bans to the worst culprits.

Officals are an easy target, unfortunately they are usually the target of clueless buggers, who haven't got the balls to pick up a whistle in the first place.

Let me try and explain to you all what I am saying

Scenario 1 two evenly matched teams with a good quality ref.
Even penalty count, 50/50 decisions even at end of game.
Result best team wins ( with the exception of the odd fluke result)

Scenario 2 two evenly matched teams with a poor quality/inexperienced ref. Even penalty count, 50/50 decisions even ( may not all be correct but will normally even themselves out).
Result best team wins ( with the exception of the odd fluke result)

Scenario 3 (the one I am talking about) two evenly matched teams, ref plays for home side at an older age, probably goes to school with the brothers of the team, hangs about on same estate etc, etc, etc. Ref awards his team a penalty count of 12 to 1. Both teams have 10 handling errors, but the 50/50 decisions go massively in favour of the home team. Throw in a couple of disallowed trys and you have 2 evenly matched teams. 1 has 80% possesion and 1 has 20% possesion. Only ever going to be 1 winner.


So yes I appreciate good refs, 1 accept bad refs as they even themselves out, but I will never ever accept cheating refs. these need to be stamped out and banned from rugby league for life.

The worst I have seen was a couple of seasons ago when my son played a fixture away. The ref was a home player from an older age. The home team had a penalty count of 20 -0 the ref sent 3 of the away team off for offences that he didn't penalise the home team for. He then played 53 minutes in the 2nd half for an under 12's game until his team scored the winner. When the away coach aquestioned his timekeeping on 50 minutes he sent him off aswell.

The home team coach then believed he had won that game fair and square. If you look closely you will see teams who win nearly all there home games but very few away games.

As far as respect goes, it has to be earned. I will respect a good ref but not a cheat, I will respect a good policeman but not a bent one. I will respect a good financial adviser but not one who wants me to buy products that only benefit him.

As for all you guys who say get off your and do something about it...Well I might be doing something about it.
This a forum for people to exchange views on rugby related topics, and however much some of you don't like to admit it cheating refs do exist. You have to remember that we are paying for them and as such we should expect them to be impartial.

Senario 3 is so rare is to not worth talking about - you need to be able to accept this is a game - teams lose games they should win - get over it and move on

Actually it is not that rare and can I say if that standard of statement is all you have to contribute then I suggest you don't bother in future!!


What I am looking for from this is somebody who actually understands what I am saying and "gets" that true winners only come from a balanced game. My sons are more often than not on the winning team but they have only actually won if it has been reffereed properly.

So, your sons are on the winning team most of the time, but they only win if the game is refereed properly. So this must mean that most of the time the ref's are up to scratch?

Nice bit of contradiction there dont you think?

Anyway, I suppose as an amateur ref myself I'd better add my money to this.

As far as it goes in Leeds I have never seen any ref cheat or do anything of the sort. There have been many inept performances by some leading to idiots like yourself refering to them as cheats but this is mainly because they are not upto that standard.

Also the majority of muppets on the sideline dont bother me because I know its usually either 1 of 2 things. Firstly you get the coaches/parents who know about the game and they think they can influence the decisions by trying to slate a weak ref. I learned this early on when I started and these same people come upto you after the game and congratulate you on a good performance.

Secondly there are idiots who dont know the 1st thing about the rules of the game who would moan if somebody was handing them a cheque for £10000. These are normally put in thier place by the more knowledgable folk around them.

As far as punches being thrown in my experience it's due two teams who dont like each other un the 1st place getting at each other verbally all game. You can calm it down as much as you want but if the players want to go then they will.

Im gonna tell you something about you, and your sons.


You are a whinger, a gutless whinger.

You're sons are gonna grow up just like you. A couple of gutless losers who blame everyone else for their lack of success.

Congratulations.

No really!

few people have the courage to openly say they want to bring up their kids to be a bunch of whinging pommy idiots, but you just come right out there with it man.

One thing I forgot to say Egg...

If I oficiated your kids team and penalised them 20 timeS and the other team 5 or 6 would you have the sh*ts then? Would I be cheating? Even if it was justified in the rules? (not in your warped brain)

The thing is Hollywood....you'd know if you were reffing his boys because they would be the ones crying and p*ssing their pants because the other side is playing too rough.

Then you'd be amazing when they high fived each other and claimed they had won via a moral victory!



These are the type of idiots that grow up and hand Andrew Farrell the trophy because they ties a series at home and the other side retained the trophy!

Yay, lets all celebrate for this cretin and the brats he is bring up to infect the English sporting landscape with their losing attitude and weak ways.


To be fair though, like I said, he come out and said it. He laid them on the line, he wants his kids to be whinging losers.....takes some balls to say that in public.

As a referee who constantly does junior games throughout the winter I earn respect every time I take to the field because I have the b***s to go out there and do it and not to stand on a touch line being accused of all sorts of things by people who quite simply don't know better. I'm fed up with insinuations of cheating from so called experts who gain their knowledge of the rules either from their mates in the pub or from Eddie and Stevo. What you are accusing some refs of is in fact illegal. It is illegal to deliberately influence the outcome of a match as a match official. Now if you have proof of this then I suggest you go to the police, if not then shut up. It's thanks to people like you that we find it hard to recruit and retain and develop officials to a better standard.

You still don't get it do you.

3 types of ref

1 good ref

2 incompetent ref

3 biased ref

ref 1 don't have a problem with, ref 2 although frustrating can't really be blamed for being incompetent, that is down to the training they get,in all walks of life you get incompetence. Ref 3 this is cheating.

And no I don't shout at the refs, and no my kids are not whingers.

So please thickos and refs ( if you are ref 1 well done, if you are ref 2 get a rule book, if you are ref 3 have a look in the mirror) this is not about whinging when beaten, this is not about shouting at refs. This is about a ref not being impartial and engineering a win.

You lot of divs would probably say it happens get on with it when someone tests positivefor drugs.

And Ladyref " call the police"

How funny is that. You don't grow balls and earn respect for walking on a pitch to do something you are paid for. You earn respect by reffing a game fairly and to the best of your ability.
The best way to stop this happening is to not allow a child who is associated with a club to ref that club. How easy is that?


Hollywood Harrigan if you did a justified penalty count of 100 to 5 I would be happy. What about the ref associated with a club who gives a penalty count of 12 to 0 all for offside when both teams are only getting back the same distance or are both moving off the mark early?
If you are ref 1 or 2 good for you, surely you must want to rid the game of ref 3?

The Glorious League freak --- Gutless Whinger

aren't you the big keyboard warrior calling a disabled woman a gutless whinger for having an opinion. Whatever turns you on pal

Ignore the Freak, he's a bit of a legend for all the wrong reasons.
I do think you're a whinger though

Dico beleive me I am not a whinger ( maybe I have come accross as one but I am not )
It is a serious point that along with the good and the bad refs we have refs that are blatant cheats. Not only is it wrong on all levels it can at times be dangerous when 10/11/12/13/14 year olds are taking each others heads off and the ref is laughing with them when they get up out of the tackle. Only to send the first opposition player off who does this. I have seen this kind of reffing 3 times this season out of around 20 games watched from 10's to 14's, not all my kids or all my club. Surely we aren't that desperate for refs are we?

If you are unhappy with the ref, report the performance to the loacl referees society - they will sort it out. However, if this is a schools game, it is likely that it could be a pupil who has done the short course for teachers that reffed the game due to many society ref's being at work during school hours.

I ref locally and have never done schools for this reason. I like to think I fit into category 1 - but 2 is subjective and every official is capable of having a bad game due to whatever reasons.

I am going speak to parents from some of the other teams and if they confirm that they have had issues with the same refs at the same clubs then I will email the refs society. It is very difficult as I would imagine they will take the refs side and put it down to inexperience.
Would the society send an assesor to watch them?
The bulk of the adult refs fall into category 1 and 2, with the bulk of them being very good, speaking to the kids to explain the decisions and generally clamping down on violent behaviour, the issues arise with the 15ish year old kids who are reffing there own clubs, as they know the coaches and the kids very well.

My son is 14 and a qualified referee. I can only speak about his refs society but they do not allow any junior refs to referee any clubs they are in anyway associated with, although to be honest i don't think any of the junior refs in his society play for a local team as well as ref. Either way it just doesn't happen.

The refs society would also without doubt send a senior ref to check his performance if they received any complaints.

If you can provide actual games where such biased refereeing took place you could start by complaining to the local refs society to try to get them to change their rules regarding which teams junior refs can be appointed to, but if you get no luck there is a chain of command you can work your way up. In fact if you want to start at the top i don't think its too difficult to find an e mail address for Stuart Cummings.

ahh now why didn't you say this in the first place?
The contents fairly similar but in the original post you imo came accross as another whinging parent who's kids team just weren't good enough.
Its definately wrong for junior referees to take control of a game with a club they're associated with, especially if they aren't properly qualified/trained.

Thanks for a great post, I will email the head of the refs society.
I think that the way to solve the issue is to not let kids ref games at clubs they belong to. This is not the case with our local society although I will request that they look at that.
My youngest has ambition to ref in a couple of years and I will not let him ref his playing club when he qualifies.

This is the point I was trying to get accross, believe me my kids will not end up as anything other than recreational players, they will never win the top divisions with the teams they play in.
All I ever want is a fair game played out in the true spirit of rugby league.

You still have not answered the main point:

If this lad, no matter what his experience or qualifications, didn't referee the game, who would have refereed it?

Are you sure it is just a physical and not a mental disability that is preventing you making some contribution? Because to put it quite simply, I think you are fooking barking mad

Oh hold on everyone, this idiots is disabled so we're supposed to give this idiot a free pass on her stupid idiotic ideas.


Do everyone a favour. Next time you want to wheel the kids to a game of rugby, go over to the soccer fields instead. I'm sure the two gutless whingers you are bringing up will love playing a bit of fairy ball, they will be able to whing about the referee and cry like little b*tches any time someone comes within ten feet of them.

Oh, but I'm not supposed to say that because you're in a wheel chair.

Well, I don't give a sh*t!

Thats bad taste freaky

Oh don't say that.....I'm thirsty you see.....




If she wants to come onto a forum and talk complete sh*t, then try and play the sympathy card, we'll she played it with the wrong person.


If she was on life support it wouldnt stop her being an idiot!

How did your parents die Freaky?