School tommorrow sonny , bath then bed for you , the adults are talking

So if they have enough for SL , put them in SL , that solves the problems of attracting part time players , but why should the current Championship clubs accept something that will damage their competition ?

Nobody is suggesting that , however all you do when you post fantasy attendance figures is fool yourself into thinking you are better than you actually are , and that isn't the way to build any club

You dont say ? , seriously , they approached him , as I said , he was hated with a venom around Bridgend , so hardly a recipe for success

Well given his history , I'd say it was only a matter of time

Quite possibly , if you think crowds of 2/3/4,000 are a sign of a relatively strong SL club , even Leigh managed that

Oh I wasn't intimating for one moment that they move beyond where they are now. Just that as an example of what can be achieved as a basis for clubs with future aspirations & to get the sport on the map nationally.

How do you know the validity of Celtic Crusaders published attendances was any lower than any of the other clubs that year? What figures would you rather the RFL had used? Do attendance figures only count if you deem them to be acceptable?
You say that with hindsight. Leigh recently went bust, does that mean they are going to go bust again in a couple of years? Obviously circumstances change, and there's absolutely no way of knowing what could have happened, or will happen in the future. The RFL took a chance and if backfired, equally it could have succeeded and helped catapult the game to a new level.
Firstly, crowds are not the only measure of success as a club. But what evidence do you have that the crowds would be at that level?

In what way do you suggest Northampton change the way they operate so they can compete for the same player pool as heartland clubs when the SC is set at a level which stops them doing so?

Any SL quality juniors at Northampton will be taken by SL clubs. If you think the heartland championship clubs dont get an advantage by having SL academies producing players on their doorstep and it is 'balanced out' then you have hit a new low in your idiocy.

No, of course im not. I have no idea whatsoever what could have possibly led you to believe I was blaming championship clubs for SL clubs signing overseas players instead of local talent.

Because there may be a better way, hence me saying [iIf the SC rules were rejigged to better benefit the heartland clubs i would be in favour of it. I have no affiliation to the current system, if it can be changed for something better then we should do it.[/i. Personally I thought that was a fairly self-explanatory sentence.

It isnt their competition. It doesnt belong to them. At some point you really have to get over your delusions of ownership. Northampton have as much right to compete in the championships as Leigh, the competition isnt yours and Northampton arent some interlopers.

Why should anybody accept a competition which advantages some clubs and disproportionately disadvantages other clubs? Where is the integrity in a competition which has rules which stop some clubs being able to build the squads some other clubs can? A competition which favours some clubs over other is already damaged, thats what we have at the moment, a competition where the heartland clubs have the odds stacked in their favour.

As I said earlier , you had to be there to see the reality of the situation

Did we ? , when was that then ?

They took a chance , but unfortunatley believed their own propaganda

Crowds are not the only measure no , but they are normally the biggest actual revenue stream outside the SKY money and without that money any club is living on borrwed time

Well considering they currently dont exist , it isn't about changing , more about how they start , they aren't going to be competing in the same player pool are they , otherwise what would be the point of them , as surely the main point is they will expand the player pool , or so you keep telling us

Whatever made you think we were discussing SL quality players , Northampton dont need SL quality players to compete in the Championships

There might be a better way , so away you go , explain this better way ?

So once again , explain your subjective totally fair system ? , for it to be fair where does any club have to finish within the league structure ?

No, Crusaders were a disaster waiting to happen from a number of standpoints and could only have "worked" if Samuel had been much richer and much more honest. It was a known that he was neither.



The difference is that Widnes lost a dodgy backer, had a difficult period and then get a white knight. Most SL clubs would always be rescued by somebody. Crusaders were always Samuel's personal toy and when he lost interest nobody else rich cared enough.

Cru probably didn't need to be self-sustaining but they should have been closer to it than they were.



This is BS. It is not a question of being wise after the event, it was completely predictable that he would act as he did. He had done so before.

Crusaders probably would be a "strong" team today if Samuel had been willing and able to lose a couple of million a year, but he wasn't and so this meaningless.

The point of the salary cap is to prevent clubs bankrupting themselves. Expansion clubs typically have smaller incomes than trad clubs. How does it make sense to take away the financial protection from those sides who need it most?

Where have I suggested anything to the contrary? My point was that none of the issues raised in the OP had anything to do with the failure of Crusaders, and you appear to have agreed with this 100%. It was not 'completely predictable' that Samuel would walk away, I can't recall a single person raising that issue at the time and unless you are claiming that you have the ability to see into the future then there's absolutely no way you can suggest that you knew Samuel would pull out for certain. If it was 'completely predictable' from the start, then the RFL clearly would not have allowed Crusaders into Super League. Suggesting that they should have been 'more self-sustaining' is just ridiculous, it wouldn't have made any difference as your post implies. Virtually all clubs rely on backers, and virtually all clubs would go the way of the Crusaders if their backers pulled out.

FWIW, Crusaders were rescued, you must have missed the two seasons they spent in Wrexham? Unfortunaltely for them, the new owners were just as bad as Samuel. But again, at the time there was no way of knowing that.

To the RL fans who've signed up and started posting about things like licensing criteria and fan demographics etc, that's probably one of the best ways to alienate new people from the sport. It's a football message board, let them develop an interest and get into RL at their own pace.

So you are expecting in 15 months Northampton to rock up with 25 C1 quality players from around the Northampton area? You are expecting Northampton to operate under circumstances and limitations you expect of nobody else?

Just another example of your "im no against expansion as long as they arent allowed to actually compete with my club" standpoint.

Is this the part where you have lost the argument so you pretend to be confused until you can change it? Or do you really not understand why we would use the word [i[uif[/u[/i?

The fact you specifically mentioned SL players is the reason I thought we were discussing SL players.

well i would look at the clubs in C1 and the championship and look at what proportion of their squad was made up of players from the heartlands but not from their academies. For instance, if we look at Leigh from last season they had 11 players who had come through local SL clubs academies, or 44% of their playing squad. The Championship Salary cap is £300k, So we know that Leigh (if, for ease, we use them as the average) spend roughly £132k or an average of £12k on these players. If Northampton were to have an equal chance of competing for these players, they would (IMO) need to be paying them at least £18k, for them to even think about leaving their home towns and dragging their families across country. This would mean that as an allowance for distance, Northampton would receive a £66k or 22% increase in Salary Cap at Championship level. If they were to do this, it would still mean however, that they needed to find 14, part-time local based players to fill out a 25 man squad, which would clearly be an outstanding acheivement for an expansion side in their first few years of existance.anywhere.

No I said " the best young talent " , never mentioned SL players

Sorry , I forgot about the ' If ' word , so that just falls into the same catagory as ' if ' your auntie had a dick , they'd be your uncle , but they dont , so they aren't

So you want something that doesn't exist , fantastic argument

no, you said Are you now trying to argue that the best young talent picked up by SL clubs, who play for SL clubs arent Sl players?