How long's Baille out for with that injury?
I'd rather see Duport at centre and another winger for the froggies

Guisset is done with France now, isn't he?

Also what happened to the young half back who played the last 15 or so mins of the game last year? First name William IIRC. Looked promising.

I remember the try he went missing for becasue it was so crucial, given the context which I put in the last post I am unlikey to forget it, similar to Sykes knocking on in Brisbane
I brought this issue up as I find it ridiclous the decriptions given as him being defensively sound and it was all going so well until he went off, the time for more detailed match analysis was at the time so i wont be talking about other tries we conceded
I guessed you were one of those fans who go to cheer their own clubs players and score points off other clubs players and fans becasue you are so eager to defend a Cas player's mistakes, even suggesting it didnt happen despite me not being alone in pointing it out and that you have not gone back and checked (id guess your mind is made up anyway)
I have not blamed the defeat on just one player, he was at fault for a crucial part of it though, I take no pleasure whatsoever in another year passing without a series win over australia

You are clueless.

So the Leeds lads are now creative handling geniuses with a kicking game that can keep turning an opposition team around? Pryce has not got the fine handling and kicking skills either for the top level.

Watch [url=http://www.amazon.co.uk/Marching-Together-Rhinos-Engage-Chamions-2007-2009/dp/B002TJBPSQthis[/url, then come back



Not as a stand off, no

Put your club bias to one side when looking at the halves at Leeds Hopie. Burrow and McG can play how they do at Leeds because of Sinfield. He does a lot of the organising and positional kicking. When it comes to international football when a halfback needs to be an organiser/handler/allround kicker set they both come up short. I like Rob Burrow. He is sharp and good to watch in full flow, with a big heart. But both him and Danny have holes in the game that is magnified at the top level. Compare the two Leeds halves with the likes of Thurston, Lockyer, Cronk, Barrett, Orford, Soward, Finch, Kimmorley et al. The Leeds lads come nowhere near. At the moment the pair IMO are behind Eastmond, Tomkins and Myler for England and rightly so because while these lads are not the finished article, their overall skill set for a 7 or 6 is better than the Leeds pair. Just because Leeds have done well in SL in recent years does not mean the the halves in that team are the better skilled players in their positions.

You have to question a few selections in this England midseason test. Whilst I’m more than happy with what team Steve has put forward. I find it disheartening that he’s not giving much chance for people to take the places of the more longer serving members of this establishment.

Just seems to me that Steve’s gone for the easiest option and picked players that’ll more a less be going over to Australia by the end of the season anyways. The way Catalan Dragons have performed this year this England squad could be looking at a record score against the French.

If we don’t then it just shows lack of ambition of the current squad.

good post.

Widdop had to be picked. Even if he is not good enough now by all accounts he will be so securing him for Englands international future is a very smart move. As a nation we have a forward pack to match that of australia and new zeland but we have a massive problem in the backs. I hope and believe Tomkins, Eastmond and Myler will develop into top class internationals, they're all good players now but not quite there yet but the three quarters are at best all solid players. We need some with a combination of pace, size and skill.

For as long as i've been watching the greatest game our biggest problem has been in the mind. I'm not sure, when it comes to Australia the players actually believe they can win, as long as that remains the case we will never beat them when it matters.

Souths used the same argument when they initially refused to release Sam Burgess for this test match. Few NRL players, let alone elite test stars like Darren Lockyer or Johnathon Thurston, are asked to play against semi pro teams, let alone the week before a test match.



Saints fans disagreed on this topic near end of page 1: [url=http://viewtopic.php?f=18&t=457763The Barrow Clans are Gathering[/url

From 2003 to 2009, the average points differential between a SL and a Championship/C1/NL club was 41 points. SL clubs have won 88 of those ties, and semi pro clubs have won 3 times. Barrow's chance was and should have been minimal, and elite players like Eastmond should be rested from a match like that.



NZ's resources are a fraction of yours, and they have defeated Australia in two recent series. Elite player management, and the structure of elite competitions, is the real issue.

PLAYER BASE
OVERALL PARTICIPATION
NZRL - 16,728 (SPARC Review 2009)
RFL 62,463 (2004), [url=http://www.sportfocus.com/newspub/story.cfm?ID=32299285,000 in 2009[/url),

English RL anywhere from 5 to 20 times as many players as NZRL.

OVERSEAS IMPORTS
Australian NRL system (not including NZ Warriors or Auckland Vulcans NSW Cup team) - 92 overseas players
NZ Warriors/Auckland Vulcans - 7 overseas players. 28% of NRL squad.

PRO CLUBS
England
Full time = 12 Super League
Part Time = 20 Champ/C1

NZ
Full time = 1 (Warriors)
Part Time = 1 (Auckland Vulcans NSW Cup)

Also, the Kiwis have capped at least seventeen players born and/or trained overseas since 1996.

SERIES/TOURNAMENT VICTORIES OVER AUSTRALIA SINCE 1996 (since full time professionalism)
KIWIS - RLWC 2008, 3N 2005
ENGLAND/GB - nil.

You guessed i was there to slag off players because i was supporting one of them? thats a pretty strange jump of logic, Since you were defending mguire earlier on in the thread does that mean you went to the tournemount soley to cheer on your own clubs players and to boo those of other clubs?
I was supporting them all, for me there club didnt matter while they were playing in that tournemount, i did watch the players who were new especially though such as shenton, easmond, tompkins, bridge and crabtree. I never said shenton was defensivley perfect, indeed there is no such player (at least not to my knowledge) but he was our best back in defence, he managed to restrict the aussies to just two tries down in his side for about 145 minutes which is about as good or better than i can remember any England/Great britain centre doing for the last 10 years, he did more tackling than any other back and hardly missed one and made a couple of very important tackles (the one where he chased down an aussie player that had broken through and forced a knock on was top notch, as was him combining with hall to send an aussie player into touch near the england line) which considering this was his debut tournemount is pretty good.

I've attempted to check it on video, unfortunatly the 'highlights video' available has very little game footage and thats at ground level with the players blocking most of the action. As far as i'm aware your the only one on this thread that has blamed shenton for anything (apart from being knocked unconcious) and i cant recall shenton being blamed at the time of the tournemount (any chance to blame a cas player for england losing would have been a bandwagon that many wouldnt have been able to resist jumping on). So we have only your opinion, and since you have singled out shenton defence as a crucial reason we lost despite the vast majority of points scored by the aussies in both games were at the other side of the field (at least whilst shenton was on the field) and shenton being our best back in defence, you dont come off as the most objective or reliable source.

Mcguire has carried a team this season without burrow and sinfield and he has done 80% of the kicking when they haven't been on the field. If mcguire comes nowhere near the aussies tomkins and myler are light years away. If you still think mcguire is a support player i suggest you watch a game from after 2005. Tomkins, Eastmond and Myler have all played in teams which are doing well and a lot of players look like world beaters when the pack is dominating but none have played in a team like Leeds this year which has been hit by injury and stood out.

Wasn't there the same number of tries scored down his side in the half a match he was off injured and the rest of the quad nations? Best defensive back by a mile in my view.

I will say it again IMO McG is a player that relies on speed and footwork. The rest of his game is lacking IMO. Compare him too Eastmond, Tomkins and Myler and i think he does not have the skills that these players possess. Then compare Danny to the Aussies and it is men and boys mate. I think the Leeds halves are one trick ponies that for years have had Sinny to do the organising/kicking which has made up for the skill areas in which they are lacking. I respect your opinion as everyone has a right to one. But we will have to agree to disagree on this one as this is my view.

He was only injured for around 15 minutes iirc.

The problem is there is an excellent team work ethic at Leeds. Mcguire lacks the creativity and skill to organise a team. Watch how many times he runs at the defensive line and then doubles back because he has run out of ideas. If the gap isn't there for himself then he struggles. He has proven year after year that he might score tries but he is NOT an International Half Back. Out of the 4 half backs, Tomkins, Myler, Mcguire & Eastmond, Tomkins is the only one in my opinion that looks like he can play as an international 6 consistently. Myler is overrated and Eastmond can be brilliant on his day but lacks consistency at International Level. Still Eastmond & tomkins for me should be put in at 6&7 at every opportunity and build the team around them. Mcguire had his chance and failed on numerous occasions.

he's played 3 internationals..........

Theres a few on here who are stuck in 2005.
Since then McGuires has developed his all round game and is Leeds most potent attacking force. He tops the try assists every season, organises, has an excellent short kicking game and has won many a game for Leeds which we haven't deserved to win with a try out of nothing. If he played for any other club he would be acknowledged to be a good player by all.
He had one poor game last year, the tournament before (the World Cup) he was excellent, watch the World Cup semi against NZ - if you dispute that he was quality you are sadly lacking in your knowledge or can't see past your anti Leeds bias.

and one of those he came off the bench and played a position he has never played before.

Gotta be a Wiganer.

I agree, mcguire is far more than the support player he once was, as burrows form has diminished his seems to have improved, His main problem for me is his defence, if he could improve that he should be in the mix for international selection. The problem is who does he replace both eastmond and tompkins are naturally differant players who will get better the more internationals they play and will surpass mcguire imho as they are both better players than mcguire was at there age.

Bit misleading saying he is top for try assists by the way, he hasnt been top for try assists, he is currently 8th and before that has been 10th, 7th 2nd and 7th. Which is good but on average he is out of the top 5, so you cant really say he 'tops the try assists'.

Sorry, i was a bit vague. He is top at Leeds for try assists.

Ah i see, makes more sense now.

Guisset is, but you can always tempt them back with a good ego massage.
Gigot will probably play hooker as Kane is not in the squad (probably still sidelined from his knee injury).
You're thinking Bartheau at SO, who I would have thought should be included, not sure who will play SO if he doesn't, unless we go with Gigot, at which point who will play hooker? Bartheau has not had a good super league this year, he needs to bulk up as he gets pushed about a bit too much - he had a good International last year so I would have thought Bobbie would stick with him.