Unfortunatly until you have enough viable competitive ' interested ' nations playing the game you will never use it to grow the sport

The International part of RL is the weakest part of it, you need to build from your strongest part, that is SL and the semi pro leagues ( although overal they are financially in a mess ) , trying to use the International part is trying a short cut, it will never work

Rebrand? , show me the record of that being a success in RL?

Idiots? , so drive away who exactly? , people who attend matches? , that'll help

De Northernise? , explain that one?

Middle class? , like London have done?

Sorry WQ, more holes than a lump of swiss cheese

Indeed, dirty scummy flat capped vermin.
.......who started the game of rugby league off in the first place. Complete b'stards, all of them. What what.

A 50,000 (min) seater stadium owned by the RFL which RL can call home, in the same way that Twickers, The Millenium and Murrayfield are for their respective unions, to generate the kinds of income required to drive sustained growth nationally and internationally of our game.

Rebrand? , show me the record of that being a success in RL?

Hasn't Super league and what Sky has brought (and everything associated with that) been a successful re brand of the game, for example. Winter/summer, Fri and Sat night prime time Sport TV, Decent grounds .............

Idiots? , so drive away who exactly? , people who attend matches? , that'll help

If you cant see them when you go to matches then you go to different games to me. There are far to many watching(and ruining the game). There are a few that keep plenty from going. Fights, Drunks, Homophobic chants...go on compare it to football.

De Northernise? , explain that one?

Expand the game so its national-Does it not speak for itself. Do you really believe the game can grow whilst it is based in 3 areas of the UK at top level- Warrington and its surrounding 10 miles, Leeds and its surrounding 10 miles and a city in East Yorks

Middle class? , like London have done?

London hasnt-London attracts toothless goons. It makes me wonder where they find them.- The middle class watch RU. Until the game moves away from its northern working class roots it will go nowhere. Difficult to swallow but fact. Northern towns cannot prop a top level sport up

Sorry WQ, more holes than a lump of swiss cheese- which holes

The product on the field is key.

We have two 'showpiece' events in European RL and both get very respectable crowds and coverage levels. Much of that is down to the fact that the quality of the product and occasion is very high. Elsewhere however, that's not the case. We have too many poor quality clubs and teams, we have too many one-sided game and too many times when teams can win whilst still in "third gear". Without that element of "any given Sunday", like you find in the NRL, in US sports and, to an extent, most levels of football, we're going to struggle to get anything other than the hard-core coming to games.

And that's what we need because if this forum is any indication, your 'hard-core' fan is one that is constantly moaning about how much stuff costs, how the league is a waste of time, how play-off matches (which aren't a waste of time) should be free, why any initiative will 'never work' and how much of a 'joke' the game / RFL is. Until the game can supplement (or dare I say it, replace) that sort of hard-core fan with a more, shall we say, desirable clientèle, it will continue to struggle. There are a lot of affluent people living in cities like Leeds and Manchester and their leisure dollar is valuable. With the right product, the game can attract it's share of this market and thrive.

Northern cities could. The problem is that northern towns are just that - towns. Youve got top flight clubs in places of less than 100k people. So few of the northern cities over 100k have pro rugby, let alone an affinity for the game.

Spot on.

So in your opinion we should get rid of the teams who play in northern towns,? if we do that we might as well start from scratch, because theres only one northern City what has done anything in terms of wining things and thats Leeds, all the rest have gone into administration, or been propped up by the ruling body, some fans seem to go over board with there debating of how the sport should go.
Like it or not Rugby League its Northern sport, thats where it's roots are, every time the game has tried to move out of the area it has failed badly, so were do we go next, London fans are a bit sp, and without wealthy benefactor would have gone the way of the dodo some years ago,
the game has tried to spread its root in to Wales, and it's been plain to see how well the game has gone down in that country, so were next, every place we have tried to take the game to has failed, the only new club to be successful is Catalan but RL is not new there it's been played there for donkeys years,
So expansion has not worked in RL whilst i have been watching it, and it has stayed a northern game were us poor working class folk live.
So if you want the game to be a success in your well off middle class areas, the first thing your supporters need to do is put your hands into your middle class pockets and help the club out by supporting the club through the turn stiles, instead of letting a Northerner do the job for you

Paid for how? With how many games in it per year? 3 or 4 at a max and that includes taking the Cup Final away from Wembley and the Grand Final away from Old Trafford.

So SL has been a successful re brand, OK, so are you suggesting is we rebrand it again? Which other part of the sport would you re brand? , and what as?

Apart from the odd bit of ' handbags ' and verbal abuse RL is relatively tame, unless maybe you just get the pi55 heads on the lash in London at the Stoop, but as you say still much better than mass policing as you see in footy

So where's the problem, and how do you suggest you stop these ' fans ' attending?

Wrong.
England RU hosted Fiji, South Africa, Australia and then paid the All Blacks 2 million quid to pop in this autumn at Twickenham. Cheapest tickets were 40 notes.....average ticket costs is 70.

328,000 punters, blanket coverage in most papers and news sites, highlights on the news bulletins and just shy of 20,000,000 in the bank.

Fiji were dipatched with ease, but the other teams ranked 1,2 and 3 in the world were a different affair entirely.

England RL hosted and thrashed Wales and France this autumn in front of tiny crowds who paid 12 quid whilst the teams ranked 1 and 2 sat at home.... do I need to say any more?

The last RLWC, played in a country where RL is MASSIVE attracted less fans than 4 England RU international friendlies.....



Until there are potentially 8 strong RL nations with another 8 behind them getting stronger then the international game will always suffer by comparison like the one above. And whilst the ANZACS masturb8 over SoO, a Billion dollar TV deal and refuse to play ball, then that's never going to happen.

the crowds for the recent Autumn series would have looked pittyfull in a 50k seater stadium.....jesus, even the wembley doubleheader only got 44k and that was at a tenner a pop......I suggest you stop watching field of dreams.

So ' expand the game ' , fair enough, Hemel,Oxford, Gloucester Uni all in one hit ( a big mistake IMO , but we'll see ) along with SW Skorpions, Skolars and Gateshead, it will be interesting to see how these clubs progress, got to say I'm glad I'm not a Gateshead player, they're going be spending a lot of time on the team bus, for not much money

Once again, how? , how do you get middle class midd country/southerners to watch/play RL?

GF, do you want to tell them or me?

The answer starts with the letter M, and ends 8 letters later with a G

Clubs need to do it, and the RFL need to do it

Sorry WQ, you seem to have been going a bit heavy on the wine gums.

Although we are labelled as a northern working class sport and this does not fit everyones ideal, the "northern" roots of the game are something that we should be proud of.
It was a group of northern clubs who had the guts to stand up to the wealthy southern folk that created the game of RL and although the media, in general, together with the establishment (in England & France) are heavily biased against our game (for a number of different reasons), we should indeed be proud of the games heritage and roots.
As I am sure you are aware, RL was banned in France and was stripped of all of its assets and without doubt has been belittled at every opportunity by the British Press and media who are comfortably in bed with the Union boys (old school tie's and all that)

It has been said on this thread already, but expansion should be properley founded and spread from the M62 south and if possible, more work should be done in Cumbria, where with some desire and marketing, there could be a SL club.

Good for you, a person with principles.....but don't whine about being ignored and/or ridiculed by the british media if you want to cling on to your "northern heritage" like some form of comfort blanket.


Excellent.......100+ years later and you're still banging the "it's not fair" drum....one of the reasons TGG has stagnated is the constant complaining about things not being fair...
...terrible thing that happened 60+ years ago and should never be forgotten,but hardly the cause of the current state of professional RL in the UK.




Boo flippin hoo.....are you seriously saying that RL is on its in the UK because the media don't cover the game? FFS......if RL fans got off their booty's and actually attended games, then the media would have no choice.......but as with everything RL, it's ALWAYS SOMEONE ELSES FAULT




I have news for you......there already was a cumbrian SL team, there is little desire for another one given the size of the area and how spread out the towns are and the RFL/RL in the UK have very little idea of how to market themselves to their existing fans, let alone potential new ones.

You suggest a cumbrian SL team whilst the one from Salford teeters on the edge and one of the bigger clubs in Bradford just got itself out of jail with a large dose of assistance from the governing body...



I reckon you've been at the wine gums as well pal.

Nothing you can suggest will instantly turn RL into a media sensation with sell out crowds overnight, neither would having a stadium of the type I suggest. Tell me, how much do the Scottish RU earn from Murrayfield?

Do Twickers, Murrayfield or The Millenium Stadium hold games every week?

They should keep odsal and develop into a 50k stadium. Bulls can rent it and the GF, cc semis, and internationals (min 3) every year played there. I'm sure fans on other side of Pennines will play up but tough, RL needs a home and a way of earning income. Say 250k in rent+ 2mill GF sales + 500k semis + 500k Int's + other fees for renting it out for concerts etc. should be able to to bring in around 5mill a year. Not sure where they get the 70mill to build it though?

Those 3 Internationals, against who exactly?

Australia, Fiji, png, NZ, France, tonga, Samoa, exiles, maori, aboriginal all stars, take your pick!

4 games in 2012, England and France in the 6 nations and the AB's and Saffas in the Autumn....260,381 in attendance....let's call it 30 quid average so just short of 8 million I'd say.....not bad for the sickest Union in the home nations.
Pie in the sky plans for a national stadium will do nothing to "promote" the game across the nation.........better to fill Elland Road for England v Wales or England v France before wasting millions on a white elephant. Jesus, even the KC didn't sell out for the England v Kiwis game in 2011 and you want to build a 50k seater stadium





Twickenham took over 20,000,000 in gate receipts from the 4 games this autumn...that's more money than the RFL receive from SKY each year....then add in the 2 x 6 nations games from this year in TW2 and you have another 11.3 million, then the Aviva final, double headers, Middlesex sevens, IRB London Sevens.....

People, for whatever reason, will associate themselves with the UNION Red Rose of England.....inspirational results like the win over the AB's only enhance the standing of the game across the nation.....Rugby League on the other hand is "that other egg chasing game" played up north.....the stereotype is near impossible to shake off. Union is Middle to Upper class.....and aspirational brits all want to be anything but working class.....just look at the size of the average households debts.

Urban myth or often used excuse, the Media's lack of attention to RL in the UK is not the reason the game is as it is now. Neither is it a lack of a stadium to "call our own", nor the dastardly deeds of the Vichy regime in France 60+ years ago......nor the behaviour of some imaginary old school tie network neither. For over 100 years, Rugby League has been a professional code of Rugby, yet in 17 short years, the other lot have not just overtaken but lapped on numerous occasions.....all the while with the cries of "foul" from your average RL fan...boo hoo...it's not fair



Professional Sport is about putting on an EVENT and creating a demand for more of the same.......Rugby League marketing, such as it is, consists of sticking up posts and expecting people to roll up.........Look at what the Bulls achieved when the put some effort into marketing their games as EVENTS........people wanted to go to Oddslum.......then looked at what happened to them when the stopped trying.....they dropped their pants on pricing in the hope of a quick fix....and we all know how that panned out.

RL is a fantastic product, but even down here in the Southern Hemisphere, they have to market the off it to keep it growing....this year there are 3 minute NRL adverts showing across the region, paid for by the NRL, attracting members.

Rather than build stadiums that you'll never fill, why not get the overpaid idiot from Man City that the RFL trumpeted as a guru to earn his crust and get attendances up across the board, but specifically at Play-off games and Challenge Cup games....because patently, just sticking up posts isn't working for them.

Rubbish, you can't tell me that major national media coverage wouldn't make a difference to how popular RL could become. I remember the early 90's when American football, on the back of fta tv coverage, hype and decent media Covg sold out Wembley on numerous occasions. Union gets a free go due to the old school network and its influence on the southern biased media. And if you don't think the French game was long term, and possibly permenantly, damaged by what the nazi union collaborators did then more fool you. We need to find a way to become class neutral as soccer is. I do agree with you marketing and image are key, the launch of SL back in the 90's with its beefcake national billboards and star players on the media was the only glimpse of what RL could be I can remember.