I think it would be better if every clubs produced their players and RETAINED their own than letting them go to other clubs. You keep pulling the "produce as many good players as Wigan" line but you've only got one more homegrown player than Bradford in your entire squad this season and even then, I'm not sure all of those named have played a first team game. How good would Wigan's side have been/be now if they'd kept some of the Wigan-bred players they had let go?



It's not how many you produce it's how good they are and whether you keep them. X club could produce 12 players but only 3 good enough to make their SL club. Y Club could produce the same amount and they retain 6.



The difference between Saints and yourselves is that Saints actively replace the Aussies they bring in with good English talent, whether it's their own or not. Look this term - their overseas players, Gidley, Soliola, Meli, Puletua, Flanney and Fa'asavalu were their overseas (note just the quota of 6 and no exemptions (unlike Wigan)). Gidley is going home AFAIK and they've replaced him with Shenton for next season. When Meli goes (possibly this year), they have Jamie Foster to replace him. Fa'asavalu has already gone and McCarthy-Scarsbrook has been touted as his replacement. If not, they have Jake Emmitt coming through.



My club has three overseas players signed up for next season and will have 11 or 12 Cas players in their squad with the likes of Ferres (who is a Cas lad but not through our academy) on our books too.



Quite frankly I think, I do, and so does every other person. Like I said, some Wigan fans cannot accept criticism of their team.

Firstly that was before IL was in charge. We have only lost one young player, we did not 'let him go'.

I'm pretty sure we have had the second most amount of young players in our first team this year showing that we don't just produce them but we do use them.

So saints are reducing their number of overseas players and so are we.

Other fans just cannot accept that Wigan are producing great young players AS WELL as signing top players from aus.

These top players will help and compliment want we already have, how can you put a negative spin on it. Oh sorry, it's Wigan.

Imagine this was Leeds, everyone would be creaming themselves about how good they will be next year and how it's a fantastic deal.

Why not?

If they were beating everyone in sight and forming the nucleus of the international team beating everyone in sight you would be unhappy?

You've reduced it by one [uso far[/u. However, you still have one place available for another overseas signing or the retention of one your current players that may be leaving and therefore, should that happen, you wouldn't have reduced it by any at all (because Carmont no longer counts on the quota AFAIK).

I'm not "putting a negative spin" on it, or rather you're searching for one. I'm not bothered that Wigan have brought these three in - as I've mentioned on countless occasions before, a lot of clubs are doing it not just Wigan - get off your soapbox assuming it's just about Wigan. It's just a perfect example with it being current news.

As I've also said, Wigan's academy is good. I'm just a fan who wants England to succeed and I wish clubs would start using these youngsters more instead of trying to keep players on loopholes. Using the example of Carmont, don't you think it would have been better to release him and put Charnley - who is looking good at HKR in his place? Just these minor tweaks would make Wigan look better in terms of their youngsters and also look a proactive club in getting their quota down.

You need to stop thinking that I - and other fans - are getting at Wigan because it's Wigan.

it would be good. It would also be good if Wigan didnt need to bring in fairly average overseas players as well.

And at least three have already been replaced by overseas players. Its hardly a giant leap forward is it.

Saints have about half the overseas players wigan have.

well yes, you should be promoting youth.

the perfect balance in your opinion being a set of first choice backs with one player you have developed, one other english player, and the rest overseas players?

you cant argue with the fact that wigans back line consists of Aussie FB, Aussie Wing, british centre bought from another club, Kiwi Centre, Aussie Wing, Aussie Stand off British half.

Last night's line up consisted of:

English FB
English Winger
English Centre
Samoan Centre
Irish Winger
English Stand Off
Kiwi Scrum Half

You're all going to moan and say Richards is an Aussie, the fact is both his parents are Irish, he visits family over there regularly, plays for Ireland no matter what the standard of the opposition is and has stated he has no interest in playing for GB/England.

Thats not the point, it really is so far removed from the point its unbelievable.

Pat Richards may very well be proud of his irish heritage, and good on him for being so committed to the irish RL cause. This is a good thing.

He was however a player, by any yardstick, trained and raised in the Aussie game. The fact his parents were irish is of no real relevance. Im sure we could, if we wished, put out a fairly decent team of Antipodean players who would qualify to play for one of the home nations. But it isnt going to contribute to the sustainability of RL in this country which is the reason we need clubs to not only develop their young players, but to give opportunities at the highest level to as many young british players as possible, so we can build that strength in depth and improve the competition.

And if you are happy with going in with an english winger, fullback and stand off, why bring in Finch and why keep on Roberts and Phelps>?

Richards is an Aussie though.
I have Irish parents but I was born in England,which therefore makes me English not Irish.

Where have I said I would be unhappy?! I would be chuffed! I just don't think it's realistic or wise to put all your eggs in one basket.

What a bizarre post.

Sean O'loughlin, Joel Tomkins, Sam Tomkins and Lee Mossop. All tied to long contracts and are brilliant players. Liam Farrell had a cracker last night, didn't he?



See this is where I get frustrated.





Not to mention other clubs, why aren't they coming under some flack?

Warrington are another side I'm becoming frustrated with although they have brought through Riley, Harrison and co. in recent years. How they have got around the quota for next season is beyond me.

However, there is only Sam Tomkins and Mossop in that list you stated that have recently broke through over the last couple of seasons. Joel Tomkins and O'Loughlin have been around for several years now and are experienced Wigan players. What about new Wigan lads this season? Tuson and Farrell - is that it?

Tusson, Farrell and Charnley on loan - so that's at least 3 THIS season. And many more to come.

=#8000FFHas Charnley played in the first team for Wigan?

Joel is only 22. Hardly what you'd call experienced. As well as Tuson and Farrell we've had Stefan Marsh, Johnny Walker and Ben Davies make first team debuts this season as well as Josh Chranley make his Super League debut at on loan at Hull KR. Plus we've got several players out on dual registraion at places like Widnes, Whitehaven and Blackpool

That wasn't the question, the poster asked who had broken through!

I don't mean anybody who is dual registered. I did initially mean those who had played for Wigan but I'll give you Charnley as he's playing SL rugby.

He's made 97 first team appearances over the course of 6 seasons - that's experienced to me.

So six first team debutants is enough fo one season? Or should we have gone with a rookie starting seventeen from round 1?

Lets see if they continue to progress and continue into the first team next season. Six debutants is decent I suppose. Be interesting to compare that to other sides.

Joel Tomkins didn't establish himself as a regular first team player till last season. Harrison Hansen is another who has been brought through by Wigan and Gareth Hock prior to his ban.

Again if you read my posts "Fully" (No pun intended)Madge has handed debuts to Five players this season - Chris Tuson, Liam Farrell, Stefan Marsh, Johnny Walker and Ben Davies.

So running around for Wigan this season we have the regular first team players like Harrison Hansen, Sean O'loughlin, Sam Tomkins, Lee Mossop, Joel Tomkins, Eamon O'carroll, Paul Prescott, Mike McIllorum and Darrell Goulding. Along with the five players who have made their debuts this season along with Shaun Ainscough who has featured once. As a side note, Martin Gleeson and Paul Deacon are both Wigan born. Better than most clubs I would imagine.

Another ten of the 17 were Wigan born/trained players against Hull FC on Friday. That's with only one quota player playing in Mark Riddell. If you're being pedantic Pat Richards and George Carmont also played. Three overseas players then. Again pretty impressive.

If all the other clubs find Thornley that important to England, and Wigan being the only club who does nothing for the England making all the others out there for England...

why didn't anyone else try to sign him?

Obviously if the other clubs wanted to avert this disaster, they could have paid for him?

Because obviously he didn't leave for money or education, he left because Wigan have signed a prop, a second rower and a halfback, which will prevent him playing in the threequarters.

Just get over it, Wigan produce more than enough players to get by, some aren't good enough to make it into our team. Tough.

Good question. If Thornley was all that, then there's plenty of SL clubs in need of british talent in their backs he could've gone to for a reasonable wage. However, if Sale have made on over-the-odds offer, Wigan were right to stand firm.

It wasn't long ago Saints fans were worried about Eastmond being poached by Sale - the concenses was almost unanimous that we shouldn't be held to ransom by an unproven youngster.

And Kyle is still in Super League not playing Rugby Union.

The whole crux of this arguement is that Wigan hide behind the salary cap as the reason for Thornley's departure from the sport, yet they find enough to pay getting on for 10 NRL players.

There is something wrong there.