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| Quote ="orangeman"Any discussion about restructure at the top tier is always going to involve comments regarding past failings.
Toronto Failed. Covid gives a smokescreen, but they were heading straight back down and the "rumours" of unpaid debts seem to carry water when the Billionaire owner walked even though his billions remain in tact.
Furthermore. Toronto were already in the UK, playing their games in the UK, so any excuse about "additional expense is a sham, as their squad would mostly been living at home anyway.
Enough about Toronto.
The game in the UK/France is now looking at a reduced income from TV and an unsure future when it comes to how many fans will return after 18 months. Sponsorship will be reined back too, as companies struggle through the next few years recovery, so the question has to be, how do the teams...all 20 or so in the top tiers see the game surviving over the next 5, 10 & 20 years?
I've recommended a 2 tier 20 with income from the central pool dictated on your finishing spot at season end and then performance during finals footie.
This will mean that the usual suspects (Leeds, Wigan, Saints, Wire and maybe a couple of others will see a slight reduction, whilst mid to bottom SL clubs will be brought more into line with top table Championship clubs.
If Wakefield or Huddersfield want to challenge the top clubs, then their owners or business models will have to fund it. Sugar daddies are great, but working as a business to attract revenue through fans sponsors etc is more sustainable. Toulouse and London (whilst Hughes is there) may well buy better squads and clubs like Salford and Wakefield may slip a bit, but even tiered distribution of central funds will create a level playing field.
SL has about a 8.5k gate average. This is driven by Leeds, Saints, Wigan, Hull , Catalan and Wire ll achieving more than this and the rest being dragged being. To those who say success = crowds, you're dreaming. Salford with 2 finals of late will struggle to get 4k (half the average) and 4k, isn't enough to challenge the top teams, so they either attract more fans or find a sugar daddy.
2 divisions with finals footie in both and 1 up one down between them. No duel reg. Play each other 3 times a year delivering 13 home games each. top 4 play offs.
You can meddle with the format all you like, but the reality is that Wakefield/Huddersfield/Salford/Leigh/HKR will be looking over their shoulders into the abyss until we offer a viable pathway bac from relegation.'"
Could you explain just how 20 clubs will share the pot and whilst it makes great sense to have "prize money" based on finishing position, the idea of ALL clubs being shown on Sky and yet receiving substantially different amounts of "central funding" is just wrong, utterly wrong.
This will mean the richer clubs getting richer and the poor will be left with sod all.
On the basis that the "ideal" competition would be having 10/12/14 clubs all capable of competing with each other, your idea will simply make the gap between the top 5/6 and the rest ever greater.
It would be really interesting to know just what the game needs to do to make itself more attractive to Sky and any other broadcasters.
Do they want more or less clubs in the top flight, more or less overseas clubs, shiny new stadia, to show more/less games etc, etc.
Post covid, RL faces so many challenges and the lack of cash from Sky, especially for the lower leagues, will make life for all clubs far more difficult and RL wasn't exactly in rude health before.
Personally, I feel that cutting the number of clubs from 12 could be a huge mistake and this should be avoided at all costs.
Those at the top of the sport need to give some serious thought about where the game is heading and where we want to be in 5 /10 years time and not look for another restructure for the sake of it, something that, time, after time, after time just hasn't worked in the past.
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"
It would be really interesting to know just what the game needs to do to make itself more attractive to Sky and any other broadcasters.
(1) Do they want more or less clubs in the top flight, (2) more or less overseas clubs..............
Personally, I feel that cutting the number of clubs from 12 could be a huge mistake and this should be avoided at all costs.
Those at the top of the sport need to give some serious thought about where the game is heading '"
Well you appear to have completely missed the fact "The game" has just been in intensive and successful "serious" negotiations to obtain a new SKY contract.
Once they shook hands with SKY the SL top bosses came out and talked about a 10 club Superleague. That's a really good clue to your question (1) above.
As for question (2) if they pop into the 10 club superleague the only two overseas clubs there are (who else are you talking about other than Cats & TO??) then that means 2022 onwards will see only 8 English clubs in Superleague - so you have a big clue there as well. They aren't going to provide only 8 clubs to English SKY subscribers are they??
Here's another clue if your still unsure of overseas clubs. Toulouse applied to join Superleague a few months ago and they were told No thanks, and Leigh got the gig??
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| Quote ="Donnyman"
Here's another clue if your still unsure of overseas clubs. Toulouse applied to join Superleague a few months ago and they were told No thanks, and Leigh got the gig??'"
Are you sure about this ?
IIRC there were 6 clubs applying for 1 SL spot.
Unless there is public record as to why Leigh got the gig, in favour of Fev Toulouse, Bradford etc, and more importantly the reasoning behind this, I would suggest that you are guessing.
What happened to Newcastle, York and London, who were to be included in an "all new".
You seemed really certain of this for all of the last 12 months ?
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"Are you sure about this ?
IIRC there were 6 clubs applying for 1 SL spot.
Unless there is public record as to why Leigh got the gig, in favour of Fev Toulouse, Bradford etc, and more importantly the reasoning behind this, I would suggest that you are guessing.
What happened to Newcastle, York and London, who were to be included in an "all new".
You seemed really certain of this for all of the last 12 months ?'"
It was publicly made known that Leigh where financially better off. Basically they had more money in the pot to cover the 850k shortfall.
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| Quote ="atomic"It was publicly made known that Leigh where financially better off. Basically they had more money in the pot to cover the 850k shortfall.'"
I missed that one, but I haven't missed the way Mr. Beaumont has been a keen RL fan happy to put massive sums of money into the game.
The only reason RL continues to exist in the northern hemisphere is because people will do that across the north of England. Beaumont is on a par with Davey, Lenegan, Caddick, McManus, Pearson, Moran, Carter, Hudgell etc etc.
The idea that he's a clown and we should have a pro RL club in Timbuktoo as that's expansion is a fascinating one
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"Are you sure about this ?
IIRC there were 6 clubs applying for 1 SL spot.Unless there is public record as to why Leigh got the gig, in favour of Fev Toulouse, Bradford etc, and more importantly the reasoning behind this, I would suggest that you are guessing. What happened to Newcastle, York and London, who were to be included in an "all new".
You seemed really certain of this for all of the last 12 months ?
'"
Yes there were six clubs wanting the last SL slot. that Leigh got the gig is a tiny tiny bit of a clue that the Superleague clubs wanted another northern rich owner to join their northern rich owners club.
They are an insular bunch, they hate Bernard Gauch and his phoney French team.
Time we got rid of these rich Northerners and got back to intercontinental fantasy Rugby League.........
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| Quote ="Donnyman"Yes there were six clubs wanting the last SL slot. that Leigh got the gig is a tiny tiny bit of a clue that the Superleague clubs wanted another northern rich owner to join their northern rich owners club.
They are an insular bunch, they hate Bernard Gauch and his phoney French team.
Time we got rid of these rich Northerners and got back to intercontinental fantasy Rugby League.........'"
Just a shame the wealthy northern owners are dependent on money from a broadcast deal.
The whole lot together won't have put as much in as Gausch and Argyle.
The wealthy folk just put in directors loans.
That is LOANS!
Joe the unemployed chap will probably put in a higher percentage of his disposable cash,over the years.
Instead of your usual anti - overseas tripe,how about some real facts about any putative restructure?
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| Quote ="Donnyman"Yes there were six clubs wanting the last SL slot. that Leigh got the gig is a tiny tiny bit of a clue that the Superleague clubs wanted another northern rich owner to join their northern rich owners club.
They are an insular bunch, they hate Bernard Gauch and his phoney French team.
Time we got rid of these rich Northerners and got back to intercontinental fantasy Rugby League.........'"
This is a bit of a strange post, Donny.
Of course the game needs as many wealthy people involved as possible and DB has certainly put plenty of brass into Leigh over the years, with the occasional dummy spit.
Was it the SL clubs that voted for Leigh ?
What happened to the independent panel, who were charged with selecting the "best" applicant ?
Once again you are putting your very own spin onto things and you chose not to answer about London, York and Newcastle all of whom, you had previously been so certain of being in the all new, all British SL.
The one certainty is that if/when some clubs are dropped/kicked out of SL, whether they be from Hull or Perpignan, it will be yet another mistake from those in charge and assuming there is a cut from 12, to 10 clubs, it will be another nail into the RL coffin.
The elephant in the room is just why RL is so unappealing to the masses.
The media, and the general public are starting to ignore the self proclaimed "greatest game" and the sport is walking into oblivion and back to an amateur status.
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"This is a bit of a strange post, Donny.
Of course the game needs as many wealthy people involved as possible and DB has certainly put plenty of brass into Leigh over the years, with the occasional dummy spit.
Was it the SL clubs that voted for Leigh ?
What happened to the independent panel, who were charged with selecting the "best" applicant ?
Once again you are putting your very own spin onto things and you chose not to answer about London, York and Newcastle all of whom, you had previously been so certain of being in the all new, all British SL.
The one certainty is that if/when some clubs are dropped/kicked out of SL, whether they be from Hull or Perpignan, it will be yet another mistake from those in charge and assuming there is a cut from 12, to 10 clubs, it will be another nail into the RL coffin.
The elephant in the room is just why RL is so unappealing to the masses.
The media, and the general public are starting to ignore the self proclaimed "greatest game" and the sport is walking into oblivion and back to an amateur status.'"
Because clubs like yours have provided little in the way of competition or excitement since the 1960s.
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| Quote ="M@islebugs"Because clubs like yours have provided little in the way of competition or excitement since the 1960s.'"
Keep sucking the lemons
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| Quote ="M@islebugs"Because clubs like yours have provided little in the way of competition or excitement since the 1960s.'"
Your club being?
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"This is a bit of a strange post, Donny.
Of course the game needs as many wealthy people involved as possible and DB has certainly put plenty of brass into Leigh over the years, with the occasional dummy spit.
Was it the SL clubs that voted for Leigh ?
Once again you are putting your very own spin onto things and you chose not to answer about London, York and Newcastle all of whom, you had previously been so certain of being in the all new, all British SL.
The elephant in the room is just why RL is so unappealing to the masses. The media, and the general public are starting to ignore the self proclaimed "greatest game" and the sport is walking into oblivion and back to an amateur status.'"
Yeh of course I'm certain [u if [/uthe all new 2x10 Superleague comes in in 2022 it will involve Newcastle York and London. what's your point??
Of course the SL clubs voted for Leigh. Why would they not they need money not dreams.
Of course RL doesn't appeal in places where it's not actually played and Rugby Union is king.
Anything else?
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| Quote ="Donnyman"Yeh of course I'm certain[u if [/uthe all new 2x10 Superleague comes in in 2022 it will involve Newcastle York and London. what's your point??
Of course the SL clubs voted for Leigh. Why would they not they need money not dreams.
Of course RL doesn't appeal in places where it's not actually played and Rugby Union is king.
Anything else?'"
My point relates to your insistence for the last 12 months that York, Newcastle and London would be in SL, not a re named Championship/ 2nd tier. You do remember that dont you ?
If RL has no appeal in areas where RU is "king" and has no hope of ever doing so, we may as well move the bulldozers in now and allow Saints, Wigan, Leeds & Wire to go to the "dark side".
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| Quote ="M@islebugs"Because clubs like yours have provided little in the way of competition or excitement since the 1960s.'"
Oh yes, Trinity should be blamed for all of the sports many failings
The direction of travel for the sport and the myriad of failed restructures are all down to little old Wakefield.
At least you've given me a laugh this morning
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"Oh yes, Trinity should be blamed for all of the sports many failings'"
Not just that. I'm pretty sure Wakefield blew up the twin towers and killed Dianna to be honest.
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| Quote ="M@islebugs"Little, old...
I notice you don't list the club's achievements. Or big games even. It's indisputable. Huge amounts of TV money spent to achieve 9-11th place.'"
As there are only 4 SL clubs that have won the grand final, then by your reasoning, all the other eight clubs in super league, have been a waste of money. Just saying.
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| Quote ="Dunkirk Spirit"As there are only 4 SL clubs that have won the grand final, then by your reasoning, all the other eight clubs in super league, have been a waste of money. Just saying.'"
No I don't think that. I think all the other clubs have shown ambition. Hull, Cas and Wire, even Hudds have had memorable sides. Mr Davy has done everything possible. Hull KR try their best and their fans are passionate. If they were a good side I think they'd get 8-10k plus the big derby games. All credit to the people at Salford who have risen from what looked like dead. I think all these clubs have contributed to the promotion of SL to greater or lesser extent.
Wakefield are a significant net minus.
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| How come when we do a raffle on the Bulls board about which one of us should lay into Wakefield I never get chosen? It's rigged.
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| Lmao, the last umpteen attempts have been dismal failures, so lets have Manchester-Wigan, Liverpool-St Helens, Leeds (I guess they're just about well enough known), Hull United, rebrand the merged Cumbrian sides as Scottish Borderers.....yeah, you get my drift....what a load of B*******s
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| Does anyone on here know if the meeting of SL and the RFL management is still taking place tomorrow (Wednesday 19th )?. I think it was initially to discuss the distribution of the next lot of Sky funding, but there has been a suggestion it may also include discussion on promotion and relegation.
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| Quote ="M@islebugs"No I don't think that. I think all the other clubs have shown ambition. Hull, Cas and Wire, even Hudds have had memorable sides. Mr Davy has done everything possible. Hull KR try their best and their fans are passionate. If they were a good side I think they'd get 8-10k plus the big derby games. All credit to the people at Salford who have risen from what looked like dead. I think all these clubs have contributed to the promotion of SL to greater or lesser extent.
Wakefield are a significant net minus.'"
And yet, they have managed to maintain their spot in SL.
Poor Bradford failed to beat them when it mattered and went into a death spiral, shame really, as they used to be quite a force in SL.
You really need to get over the MPG, there's plenty of water gone under the proverbial bridge and right now, the game has many bigger issues to get through, not least the drop in funding and even more importantly, the drop off in numbers playing the game post covid, which will have a huge effect on the player pool, which was already shrinking.
These are the issues that need focus and not ing about with the structure, again or, bemoaning the fact that Trinity are where you want your beloved Bulls to be.
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"And yet, they have managed to maintain their spot in SL.
Poor Bradford failed to beat them when it mattered and went into a death spiral, shame really, as they used to be quite a force in SL.
You really need to get over the MPG, there's plenty of water gone under the proverbial bridge and right now, the game has many bigger issues to get through, not least the drop in funding and even more importantly, the drop off in numbers playing the game post covid, which will have a huge effect on the player pool, which was already shrinking.
These are the issues that need focus and not ing about with the structure, again or, bemoaning the fact that Trinity are where you want your beloved Bulls to be.'"
The structure does require change. The super 8’s for all it’s bias, created intrigue. Clubs forced to spend to regain position and clubs forced to spend to promote position. Entertaining and vey costly to clubs on the receiving end. Hence goodbye super 8’s.
If they take the approach of 2 x 10, the product will again become stale. You can throw who want to into SL2 but the stale product SL will still remain.
Without serious money being pumped in to this idea, it’s dead before it starts.
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| Bring back the Championship Eights and the Million Squid Game, as a Bronco, I'm a huge fam, lmao....No, seriously, I did think at least it meant SL clubs only got replaced by something marhinally better rather than something decididly worse.
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| Quote ="CrusaderPete"Bring back the Championship Eights and the Million Squid Game, as a Bronco, I'm a huge fam, lmao....No, seriously, I did think at least it meant SL clubs only got replaced by something marhinally better rather than something decididly worse.'"
It was completely biased. Once broken by Leigh. The eyes opened again.
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