A bit flippant, I know, but I doubt there's that much to hurt in Isaac Luke's head.

...and generously stepping up to the role...





Especially that stupid "Regards" thing. Not sure what you're trying to achieve. Puts you down there with Capdouze and his name fetish.

The reason that a lot of non-Wigan fans are struggling with your view of events is the simple fact that NOTHING excuses Flower's second punch on Hohaia. He did nothing to deserve the second punch.

Bringing all the earlier stuff into it is as irrelevant as what Flower had for breakfast that morning.

And now you'll go and find where I've said otherwise. You can, can't you?

You prove my point. Some people simply can't differentiate between acknowledging the 'earlier stuff' - that Hohaia played a part in instigating and escalating the incident - and what followed. Both players were responsible for escalating the sequence of events disproportionately. Flower, ultimately, took it way too far.

To my knowledge, no-one - myself included - has said that second punch was anything but utterly disgraceful.

I think Rhino's point is that the second punch makes all before it moot. There's little point in acknowledging/discussing who started it, who escalated it and who finished it.

That would be correct if plenty of people weren't claiming Hohaia was an innocent little cherub who did NOTHING at all, and Flower is just a big nasty who knocked him to the floor for no reason as he ran past, and then punched him not once but twice, the second being the worst single incident ever seen in the world, ever.

In any incident, instigation and escalation, responsibility and retaliation are taken into account. This is no different. Hohaia and Flower both played their part, Flower went too far.

You and a lot of other Wigan fans are just embarrassing themselves with this.

Hohaia did nothing in the initial play to warrant being clobbered from behind by Flower. He may have been attempting to disrupt the Wigan runners from getting to the ball, but so what? He's playing sport at the time, trying to gain an advantage for his team. You will see this at EVERY attacking kick made in Rugby League and it does not entitled you to strike at the player blocking you.

The second point is your and a lot of other Wigan fans assertion that Hohaia should have been sent off for 'elbowing Flower in the face'. It was a shoving motion with the arm, not the elbow and it is incredibly cringeworthy that you lot suggest he should have been sent off for it. If that's a red, you'd have reds in every Grand Final, which clearly doesn't happen.

What happened after it was ridiculous and should have lead to criminal proceedings. Flower is a mindless thug who has no place in the game, he could easily have killed Hohaia with that second punch. And yet the Wigan fans saw fit to celebrate his return with a big fanfare.

To suggest that Lance Hohaia played no part in this is as stupid as some Wigan fans suggesting he deserved what he got. He played his part and paid a price but What Flower did makes every action before the second punch completely moot. There's an old saying "For everything a reason".

What we should be grateful for although the game was dragged through the mud is that this wasn't a drugs scandal or a rape claim or even worse a drink driving charge leading to the death of someone. Ben Flower has served his time and both clubs dealt with the situation admirably.

The problem here is typical one eyed RL fans dragging the great game through the mud once again. It's over and been dealt with. Get on with it.

This is now getting boring.

Ye it is, its really sad all this pretend outrage.

I don't generally respond to you, I find you nothing but a poor man's troll. But against my better judgement I will say this:


Go and find where I've ever said that.

It's the throw enough mud and hope it will stick tactic. In these political times it's very common, to throw mud, seems like Wiganers are taking the tactic from Westminster and playing it here.

The man has had to end his career and the only thing they can do is have a go.

I'd say it's a bit distasteful. The general attitude of the RL family is to clap an opposition player off when they have been injured. What did you want him to do. Lie about the reason he has had to cut his career short? He's stated the medical reason he has had to retire that's it.

Step away from the shovel lad........you're only digging yourself deeper into a pit of denial!

I think Cronus just needs to get over it.

Cronus - you keep saying 'where have I suggested he desreved the second punch' or similar, then AGAIN talking about how Hohaia caused the whole incident - in other words making him partly responsible for being punched senseless.

As someone who really doesn't care, I'd say Hohaia was naughty in a halfback kind of way (probably deserving of a penalty if Flower hadn't reacted), and Flower acted like a complete lunatic. Its the last bit that is the sole problem with the whole incident. Hohaia could have used homphobic slurs, or done a much more blatant elbow to Flower's face or nothing at all. None of that matters one jot. All that matters is that Flower punched an unconscious man on the floor.

...and BTW I say that as someone who thinks Flower should be free to move on with no further repurcussions. The only reason this si still going is because of people trying in some strange way to defend what he did.

Good grief, is Cronut still droning on about this?

The point is quotes on this thread such as 'Hohaia did nothing wrong', 'entirely blameless', 'completely innocent', from blinkered fans choosing to ignore the illegal block and downplay the attack on Flower. Nothing, and I repeat this again for the ever-present terminally stupid, can excuse the final punch, but both players bear responsibility for instigating and escalating the incident (Hohaia's 1-match ban should be evidence enough of that).

Let me ask you this. If Hohaia hadn't moved to block Flower, would any of this have happened? No, it wouldn't. Flower simply wouldn't have had anyone in the way to knock down. Each player's reactions were then entirely disproportionate at each stage but it should have ended at the first punch, which was bad, but probably within the realms of acceptability in terms of RL as such an aggressive sport. The second was inexcusable, entirely Flower's responsibility and utterly beyond the pale. He knows that and we know that. Is that really so hard to understand?

Only when asked. It is, after all, a discussion forum.



I see you've seen fit to bump your thriving conspiracy nutjob thread again.

Only one problem with all that it was actually Ben Flower who hit Hohiah first! Off the ball and late, Hohiah reacts and the rest is history.

Man try's to tackle theif, theif shoots man dead. Well he should'nt of got in the way anyway. That's your view and it's sickning, in fact the whole legend status that Flowers recieved from the Wigan fans is disgraceful. Not only for what he did but the numpty lost you a certain Grand Final victory, yet his got hero status. Clowns

I'll leave others to draw their own conclusions about whatever value you add to it.





New job. Busy man. But your obsession with my comings and goings is duly noted. Should I expect you peeping through my windows any time soon?

You might want to look back a few posts and ask yourself who's stalking who? You followed me, after all.






Brilliant.

Flower started it, Hohia escalted it, Flower finished it. It really is that simple

No matter which way you look at it, Ben Flower is at fault for the grand final incident. Whether or not that incident had a direct impact on Hohia's current state is down to the doctors/courts to decide

I read this thread before going to bed, it sends me right off to sleep its that boring

Its very ironic that you are suggesting that Hohaia did an "illegal block" in open play, something that Wigan had exercised all last season, then suddenly when the opposition allegedly does it then it becomes illegal. You are just digging yourself a bigger hole trying to justify what could have been if events leading up to the incident had been different.
We are looking forward to our next derby match and watch with interest to see if Flower will again try to impose himself again on the smallest player on the pitch be it Walsh or Burns, will be very interesting to see if he can deal with the big men in the saints pack.