To add insult to injury - did you see the pitchsie advertising today? Not your Coca Cola, Porsche, whatever but the headline one was Pukka Pies (I kid you not)! Clearly they think we're all fat Norther b**tards. Then we had Tenerife for £99 and adverts for third and fourth rate universities.

This is what happens when you pick players based on what club colours they wear rather than that players' individual qualities. People saying Bateman isn't a centre, but he plays for Wigan so has to be picked cos he played at centre for Wigan for a bit, Williams isn't ready, but gale is probably the better player at the moment but Williams plays for Wigan so must be picked.
Until we drop the whole who you play for we will always be struggling!

I've often defended McNamara as I think he's taken some unwarranted stick in his time as England coach (especially the silly McBanana stuff) but I can't defend him on this series.
I was concerned at the start of the series with the team he picked but was willing to give him a chance. But virtually everything McNamara has tried has been at best a par, at worst a disaster.

It's obvious that McNamara desperately wanted Tomkins in the team. This was disturbing in itself because if Tomkins hadn't been injured McNamara would have shifted the current Man of Steel & SL Dream Team fullback to a position he hasn't played since 2012 in order to have a full back who hasn't played well for 2 years.

But then why on gods green earth you'd put Bateman at centre over an actual centre I have no idea.

Then why you'd persist with the failed strategy from the first test of starting with Hodgson instead of Roby.

Why, when your gameplan was so simple and rigid, you'd pick centre's and wingers of whom only 1 has much impact in getting our sets started following a kick.

Then why you'd pick 2 halves who aren't good at a passing game including 1 who's not ready yet.

It's just been very very strange from McNamara.

Likewise, I haven't previously criticised McNamara but after this charade I have no time for him anymore. Today was shameful - not just in execution but the whole approach to the game. Couldn't have got it more wrong.

The best one was:
"Drive Insured - or it'll be goneinseconds.org.uk"

Have we no better 'half backs' than those 2... good grief !

I now see what that one was and meant!!

Not sure why you dont like the Mcbanana bit other than you have previously being an apologist for him.

HE was a crap coach in SL and is a crap international coach.

The difference is some of us said it 3 years ago rather than waited until he dragged England down.

I think is pretty spot on.

Whilst not perfect I think the stick McNamara took over the last two internationals campaigns in 2013 & 2014 was over the top.

However he's taken a massive backwards step this year. Like a football manager who knows he's one game away from the sack he's sent his team out to grind out a win to save his job.

What's frustrating and I've mentioned before is the comparisons to other sports.

Start of the year England's cricket play in a World Cup and embarrass themselves with an old fashioned tedious dull style of play.

Last month England's RU play in a World Cup and embarrass themselves with an old fashioned tedious dull style of play

Both seemed hell bent on picking certain players when it wasn't working.......so does McNamara heed that warning? Nope he does the exact same thing.

Nothing wrong with not liking McNamara. But calling him McBanana makes you sound like a stupid 6 year old.

The failure to produce quality half backs has been the the biggest reason we haven't had a successful international team for 25 years. Super League clubs would rather ship in average Aussies than try trust in and develop their own.

Wire have just shipped out Myler and signed an Aussie, Saints have 2 Aussies, HKR have 2, Roberts at Cas, Salford have (or had) 2, etc.

We had one called Kevin Sinfield but people whinged and complained about him being in the team even though people argued he brought a leadership and structure to the team......two qualities people are crying out for right about now.

We also have a halfback called Danny McGuire who was the MOM in this year's GF and in most people's eyes the MOM in last year Challenge Cup Final. It's surprising he didn't get picked and Gale did, because you know.....players only get picked based on what club they play for.

I've just got in after a throughly underwhelming day and this post sums up my thoughts since full time.

The same Kevin Sinfield that did f*ck all playing for England and that's why people whinged about him being in the team? And McGuire hasn't done any more than the other half backs in the squad to earn a call up with maybe the exception of Smith. It's hilarious how quick you idiots on here change your tune.

Hardaker's been great so far though hasn't he?

"Sinfield did f**k all?" Despite his flaws, only through pure stubbornness would anyone deny that he certainly played better than Smith in 2014 and Williams and Widdop in 2015 for England.

McGuire done nothing?

He, Smith and Williams all played in the Grand Final.....who walked away with the Man Of The Match award??? Where were the latter two hiding in the final minutes when your prop Tony Clubb was forced to put up a pitiful punt on the last tackle?

Not denying what Sinfield did at club level but:

He did do f**k all for England whether Leeds fans like it or not. Quite frankly as England captain and the main man he was e, like Oloughlin. I don't know what the solution is but I tell you what I don't miss Sinfield being the automatic stand off.

What I do know for a fact is Virgin Trains advertised in RL, something that would not have happened a year ago.

Is it just me who thinks our three quarters would be more effective if we swapped the wingers over? Burgess has played left next to Bateman all year and Ryan Hall can play right wing and plays with Watkins.

Everyone harping on about the halves and redundant three quarters but imo this performance lies solely at the door of McNamara and his game plan, or lack of. You could see from minute one that all we were trying to do was barge up the middle and work off the back of quick plays, which rarely happened.It was the same last week, only reason we won was the fact we were given several penalties and turnover ball at the start of the second period and the Kiwis ran out of steam allowing us to score a couple of barge over tries.Yesterday they smartened up and cut all that out which meant we were made to look clueless.

I'm undecided what i want to see more on saturday, an England grind out win to take the series and McNamara keeps his job, which imo would be disasterous for us moving forward or a defeat which will enforce the changes desperately needed if we are to make the next step and beat the NZ and OZ in big games.

And so the inter club bickering begins.

The wigan contingent were appalling yesterday.

Bateman looked like he'd be better off on the building site and williams was like a school boy amongst men.

The coach has to go after this series. Regardless of who he picks there doesn't appear to be many options in attack and the players don't look confident,a real contrast to when they play for their clubs...this is down to him!.

The coach doesn't even live here, so he can't watch current squad or potential players "in the flesh live" to form judgements?

The loss yesterday was 1 part wrong team selection and 9 parts criminally conservative game plan .


I can only think they saw the rain and said play safety first and wait for the kiwis to spill the ball trying to offload.

Although you could swap a few players round to improve the squad, if this team were coached to play a more expansive game they would have a great chance of winning.

Swapping say McGuie for williams would have had zero difference in yesterday's game.

Not quite there’s one or two, myself included, but apparently it was simply down to the game plan rather than a lack of interaction between payers.

Just reading this thread shows the back-biting between certain clubs & I think it spills over onto the field. The Watkins / Hall combination would have more synergy as their comfortable together at club level.

You're having a laugh aren't you? McGuire is the best big game half back in SL. One of, if not [ithe[/i, best player on the pitch in all three of Leeds' recent finals. And has been their leading HB in a season they won the treble. How he's not in this team is utterly baffling! (and this isn't in hindsight neither, I've been saying this since the squad was announced)

Williams has had a decent season for a young lad but you only have to see the difference between his nothing performance in the GF and McGuire's Harry Sunderland performance to see the difference at the top level. Williams will end up being a decent player but he's not there yet. I'd still have him in the squad for the experience though, he's deserved that much. But to have Matty Smith in that squad and no McGuire and then to see the tactics in the last two weeks shows what this coach knows about halfbacks.

You cannot lay any criticism at any outside backs really neither. The back row was abysmal yesterday, they (in conjunction with the HBs) didn't create any space for the centres or full back to join in the attack in any way whatsoever. I'm not even sure you can blame the back row for their inept performances yesterday neither as I'm laying that at the coach's tactics; which were appalling!

What he said above well said