BE careful he who laughs last laughs longest

At no point did I say we can't learn from Union. Again, you were that desperate to jump in you mis-read my post. You are continuing to. But that's because you know you can't back down and admit it now. So you've got to try and bluster your way through.

If I said we can't learn from Union, then quote it. If I didn't, then do us all a favour and STFU, or even better add to the discussion like a grown up.

Sam Burgess's good performance off the bench against Fiji and his selection to start against Wales has seen more mentions of Rugby League in the media this last couple of weeks than in the rest of the year. Let's hope his form continues.

Unfortunately, because there's such a lack of knowledge/presence of RL in even a basic form in a lot of the country that I don't think it'll make any difference. The only hope is that the RFL have a decent marketing effort for the Test Series planned for when RUWC ends.

All publicity is useful especially for a game that is otherwise anonymous in the national media. If that is positive publicity as in a player like Burgess becoming a super star in Union then his background will be debated and more people will become more knowledgeable regarding League.

Most if not all Union fans in this country are well aware of League and many are regular TV watchers and admirers. But apart from Sky and the Cup & International games on the BBC the sport is just not marketed at all. Why do we not have a major brand as a sponsor? Even Ladies cricket and football teams have major brand sponsors.

Rugby League may have been the first to become professional for players but we are still amateurs at running and managing the game and this is where we should be learning from the Union professionals.

It's been tried both ways in RL, hasn't it?

Don't know about Union.

and it starts again

If he perform badly against Wales there'll be more mentions of RL than there's been in the last decade.

Gonna stick my neck out and say Sam will at least hold his own against the Welsh tomorrow. Proven Big game player is the lad

The ex Union pro's in the media brigade like Guscott and Dawson are probably already sharpening their pencils for the fall after writing him off as a viable option all the way up to this point, so i really hope he can showcase his full game and ram it back down their throats.

More than likley if he has a bad game but I back him to rise above the anti league pundits comments who are upset that he has been selected with such little experience. I hope he has a stormer and England win well.

Farrell selection too has been panned by those that should know better. He is the in form 10 and has the greater big match experience, better defence and goalkicking and more suited to what will be a physical Wales. I guess Ford will come on when the game has loosened up and will play his part no doubt. Should be a cracker

More suited? I was there when Ford ran the show at the Millennium in the 6 Nations this year and he handled our physical game quite well. Certainly better than Farrell did 2 years previously when we beat England. And the pundits aren't being anti-league, they are saying that Burgess isn't ready yet for test-match Union. They may be wrong but it wouldn't be down to being 'anti-league', it would be down to being a poop pundit. It's not always about League.

Agree with all that, I'm just skeptical at the RFL's ability to back up any talk of RL through Burgess with providing an opportunity for people to watch RL.

Yeah, because if George North joined a RL team everyone on this forum would start watching Union

Agree with this post

This idea that Sam burgess being in the England team can do wonders for rugby league is laughable..

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Look we are lucky to have two world class fly halves. Farrell is the more experienced and better defender and will not be intimidated by Wales's physicality. Neither will Burgess who has already proven he is ready for test match Union. Most of the negative stuff is from ex players who are upset because big Sam has made the team with so little Union experience which is a good advert for League. They will be even more upset at the next World Cup when he plays at No8.

I'd be very surprised if he was still in Union then.

That may be true (about Farrell) but as I said before Ford wasn't intimidated by Wales physicality in February so what makes you think he would have been today? The ex-players are just expressing an opinion that (rightly or wrongly) they think Burgess isn't quite ready for an International test match but will be in time, to think it's because they are worried it's a good advert for RL is just wishful thinking. If you think Brian O'driscoll is worried about RL or gives a rats backside about it then you are having a laugh.

I didn't say Ford would be intimidated. In Feb he was an unknown quantity to Wales but it was fairly obvious they would now look to run some big fellas at him as defending is not his strong suit. England have good choices in most positions and Lancaster has never have one 15 that he will play in every match, rather he selects based on form and who he thinks are best to beat the a particular opposition.

On this occasion Farrell is in the better form and his abilities are best suited against Wales. Another factor was the injury to Joseph whose double act with Ford is a big part of Ford's success. Farrell also outplayed Ford in the end of season cup final for Saracens v Bath. However it is quite likely that Ford and others on the bench will come as we go for the bonus try

The outcry from some of the media on Burgess getting in the squad ahead of their favorite's was based on emotion and not logic. Burgess has already shown his mettle and leadership and no doubt will make some errors as all the other players do but his positives more than outweighbany lack of experience and he has that X factor.

BOD may have been a good player but that does not mean his opinion is worth a penny.

Great post. The thread has finally started 6 pages in.

A problem I think we have in RL is the constant chopping and changing of things. Domestically it's been the dropping of the Regal Trophy, to the change to the Summer, to the introduction of Super League, to the introduction of stupid animal names to clubs, to the re-introduction of the Play-offs, to the changing of the amount of teams in the P-os from 5 to 6 to 8 to 4, to having promotion and relegation, to not having it, to potentially having it with the Super 8s and Million Pound Game, to having The War of the Roses, to not, to having England v Exiles, to not...to Internationally with having a World Cup, to not having a World Cup, to dropping Great Britain, to then having the World Cup again, to talk of bringing back Great Britain, to having mid-season internationals, to not...

You cannot keep up with RL and all its changes all the time if you're just a casual or infrequent observer who could potentially be enticed to being a proper fan of the game. There's nothing you can set your calendar by and say "I'm looking forward to...happening in RL" because even regular RL fans couldn't tell you what's going on with any real conviction for the next four years.

Domestically we now have it bang on. But we must stick with this system for decades to come. Tweaks here and there, by all means, but stick with it. Internationally set a schedule. Stick with it. You're absolutely right; have mid-season internationals set in stone for years to come. Keep the World Cup (despite not even having a sponsor, the 2013 WC was the best I've ever seen), keep the Four Nations, bring back Great Britain test series, get Pacific Island and other European international tournaments going on too. And have a proper cycle for it all.

Having a settled calendar and cycle will make a huge difference.

Then we must start looking at expansion. The game is being played in countries you wouldn't normally recognise with either code of rugby. Scandinavia, Chile, Jamaica. What can we do here? Especially with Scandinavia. Football is big there but they don't have really big football clubs on the world stage nor do their international teams do a great deal and Union isn't big there. Norway Sweden and Denmark have a Nordic international competition, what's the funding like?where the development? How do we grow that?

I'd just ignore him. You said we can't copy what Union do but could learn a lot from them and he thinks that's the same thing when it patently isn't.

This is shocking.

They fund it themselves. The fact is that nobody in RL has any money, at least in the northern hemisphere, so these countries are mostly left to fend for themselves.

Also the fact that a majority of people just don't know/care about international development. Spain beat Malta in a World Cup qualifying match today, how many people knew that this match was even taking place or that these countries even have teams?

When are we going to see some rugby, this is e?

Yeah I agree with all that. You're right we never stick with anything. We even have rules of the game chopping and changing every year.
As you say we need to get our calendar set, both domestically and internationally. I like to think, being fairly heavily involved in RL (I'm a season ticket holder at 2 clubs, I play touch rugby, coach youngsters and follow it pretty closely on here and social media), that I'm pretty up to speed on RL matters. Yet I had no idea until the last couple of weeks that England were playing France at the end of October. If I don't know how the hell will people not so involved in the sport?
We desperately need regular games set at the same time every season, preferably at the same venues. I have a few mates who will happily go and watch the odd RL game, but they need time to organise their work and family commitments. If we knew that every year, say, England were playing France on the 2nd Saturday in June, we'd probably book our tickets every year. It's a chance to meet up, catch up, and have a good time while watching a decent sporting event. But as we never know when it's going to be we (as a group) just don't bother. Now this is obviously only anecdotal, but I can't be the only one in this situation.

As for expansion, as Headhunter says, unfortunately RL has sod all money. Which is why, in the northern hemisphere, I'd be tempted to concentrate on Wales & France in the medium term. If we could get them competitive with England I think it would transform the sport in this country, and in France and Wales.

Yep. It's just a shame because he could contribute to a discussion if he wanted to, but he chooses not to.