Careful making sensible suggestions like that. On here it means you hate RL. The only way to prove your love for the greatest game is to either totally deny any problem with attendances or blame it on various, ever more unusual 'external factors'. People don't like ideas, they think we can fix things by cheerleading.

Didn't seem any worse than the 2011 final. Same old story of the club wembley seats being Empty but thats nothing new. One thing I did notice though is that there seemed be a lot less neutrals, Obviously there is a world cup to save up for and times are hard, so not having a pop, but that would be a plausible reason. Hull had a good turnout, The Wigan end probably wasn't as full as 2011, but for fair weather supporters, a possible 4th visit to wembley in a short space meant it probably didn't appeal as it usually would.


Still, Prefer the Millenium stadium. Atmosphere is so much better there.

I agree, also in Cardiff city centre which is a bonus

The official attendance at the CC Final in 2011 was bull too but not quite to the same degree as 2013.

Well the attendance in 2011 according to the bbc website archive was 78,482 , the attendance according the bbc website for yesterdays match was Attendance: 78,137

Hull brought more than leeds did imo, but seemed like less neutrals... which probably evens it out.

Ah, so if you don't like the quoted attendance you just ignore it and make it up? Genius!

Compared to 1954 at Odsal, the sports been screwed for years!

The capacity of Club Wembley is what?

Not sure how much of a positive impact it would have on the attendance, but I think it would be excellent (even though it won't happen) to have a completely fresh final one year with something like Bradford v Cas, or Bradford v Hull KR. Ten years now IIRC since the Bulls were in a Challenge Cup final, too long for a club like that. Very rarely an empty seat in the house when they were in finals (as someone on here used to make reference to in their sig).

There is a difference between suggestions to improve or change and the none stop mantra of fifth columnists.

I'd be fine with the cc as a pre-season competition. I do think it needs to be compressed as a competition for tv audiences. If I had the power I'd be more radical as I think when you look at commercially successful sports they have had to change. Often darts is shown as a sport that has modernized. But they have a smaller pool of talent. Throw a few million at darts players and you have rich household names. A few million at rl just keeps players wages up with inflation.

However it's all a debate for another thread. There are issues regarding money. But in the 100+ years of rl. Current attendances are not dire. They are certainly better than pre SL. The example used in this thread took a one off year and extrapolated that to show a percentage drop. I simply showed that over the full history, since the move to Wembley, since the start of SL it is better than average. And that average includes the guessed mammoth attendances.

If we were looking at a long term low in attendances. I'd have no issue. But we are not. We are at a comparativelow with income generation compared to other sports. That is the sports challenge.

I'm not really sure how moving it to May would help. It would still be a mid season comp and would therefore not have the emphasis and prestige that it used to have. How do you think moving it to may would improve attendances?

The attendances for the Semi Finals of the Challenge Cup in 1954 were...
Halifax V Hunslet at Odsal... 46,961
Warrington V Leeds at Swinton... 37,249

The Challenge Cup Final attendances in 1954 were...
Warrington V Halifax at Wembley... 81,777
Warrington V Halifax Replay at Odsal... 102,569

Yet according to Super League ideologists and acolytes, attendances are currently the best they've ever been in the entire history of the game, and prior to Super League hardly anyone turned up for rugby league games because they were unskilful, unspectacular, unappealing and played on boggy and muddy pitches.

It's a sad indictment of the game today when it harbours so much contempt for it's rich history.

The last two CC finals the Bulls played in attracted 67k and 71k at Murrayfield and The Millenium Stadium respectively, in each case just shy of the capacity. Certainly true that there was hardly an empty seat in the house, but we've no way of knowing if they'd have been equally close to the Wembley capacity of 90k.

In 1982 - the greatest team in the history of the game toured this country the attendances for the tests were:

Test 1 Hull - GB 4 Australia 40 - attendance 26,771
Test 2 Wigan - GB 6 Australia 27 attendance 23,216
Test 3 Leeds - GB 8 Australia 32 attendance 17,318

Let's compare to 2001 - post SL
Test 1 Huddersfield GB 20 Australia 12 attendance 21,758
Test 2 Bolton GB 12 Australia 40 attendance 22,152
Test 3 Wigan GB 8 Australia 28 attendance 25,011

Things were so much better pre SL!!!

Billy.....you have an entire thread that is based around "official" attendances. Crying foul when it suits does you no favours buddy.....stick to the party line and accept that the attendance at Wembley was as reported.
78,137 is a bloody good crowd IMHO with the added expense of RLWC just around the corner......and harking back to the days of Old shows a narrowness of mind I didn't think you possessed. Post war (25 years or so) sport was considered a great channel of entertainment and attendances across the board went up....since the late 80's RL fans attending the CC have decreased gradually due in part to the Wigan dominance and then the Grand Final of SL vying for the disposable income of RL fans.

BTW Billy.....other than sports, the number of activities trying to attract attention and revenue of the British public has multiplied out of all recognition since 1954......we take 1.7 annual holidays abroad each year, we have SKY TV and Mobile phone bills to pay, we dine out a greater number of times...the list is endless. 60 years ago our parents still had their ration books Billy........RL was a local team sport played out with fierce rivals from next door.....RL today is a business and you harking back to day of old is the attitude that is indicative of that which is holding the sport back!

I think it's quite accurate and I was there

I do agree that the final date should be moved to a little earlier in the season, say June or July so that we have a better spread of big events and to move it a little further from the Grand Final. Many people end up choosing either the Grand Final or Challenge Cup final because they are too close together and too much of a struggle financially so moving it would make it more bareable.

You must have me confused with someone else if you believe that I care about what folk think of me on here

If I were to stick to the party line, there wouldn't have been a SL attendance thread in the first place. I don't believe there were 78K in attendance yesterday and [url=https://twitter.com/Chrisirvine/status/371352271776276480I'm not alone in that viewpoint[/url.


Richard Lewis was of the same viewpoint about the games history when extolling the virtues of Super League. How disappointing that you share the same viewpoint as him.


Wigan dominance pre-SL era had nothing to do with it. OTOH, Super League and the switch to summer has dealt the Challenge Cup a series of terrible blows. The most significant decreases in attendances in the CC have taken place during the SL era.


I didn't introduce 1954 to the thread... I merely responded to it. You'll get no argument out of me about how the world has changed and it's effect on leisure pursuits. However, the thing holding the sport back isn't attitudes of old... it's the poor SL-era product itself. Yesterday's game in the CC Final encapsulated that paucity of skill and talent far more than I or anyone else could with mere words on a RL forum. The best marketing team in the world would struggle to convince anyone to buy into any of that crap. It was a showpiece event disaster of the game's own making.

I'm just about old enough to remember 70's rugby league. The sport was in a real mess back then. Apart from the entertaining biff and the freedom to dish out GBH with impunity, the game was dying on it's @rse as a spectacle in terms of playing standards. The Kangaroo Tour of 1982 was the wake up call and kick-up-the-@rse the game desperately needed at the time. Unfortunately, Super League has since reduced the game to an even worse spectacle than it was during the 70's, and it doesn't even have the gratuitous biff and GBH to fall back on either.

I didn't say it was a popularity contest, I said accepting figures given as official attendances is the core value of your SL attendance thread and to decry the CC announced figure smacks of double standards. As for the tweet? It's an opinion....nothing more, nothing less.


Richard Lewis was spot on......if you keep looking backwards then you have less control over where you are heading. Jumpers for goalposts billy bostons sidestep have little place in modersn sports business.....


Average CC final attendance 1897-1995 = 54,806
Average CC final attendance 1996- to date = 74,141.
Stats can be used to suit billy as well you know....






This is your opinion Billy and like s, we've all got one, but the point you attempt to make everywhere, that the modern game is sterile and uncompetitive as a result of the advent of SL is flawed on loads of different levels.

The 1995/96 season saw crowds average 5,300 or so across 11 sides...down from 5,600 the year before. SL I saw crowds of 6,571...they have grown steadily to 9,097 today over 18 years...a jump of close to 40%.

I accept that the RFL were OTT last year in their back slapping over record attendances, but the bottom line is more people attend games in the top flight now than did in the years preceding SL.

this is pretty sad, not one other sport feels the need to question the attendance of their main (or one of their main) final.
Yes the club wembley was spartan, have you thought some might be watching from in the bar area?
However as all sports do it why the need to deseminate the official attendance, really, why?
I would think it isn't a problem tot he RFL as the money comes in from the club wembley seats no matter what.
We either find a stadium that can hold about 75k or we just put up with the souless crap that is wembley.
Frankly i'd be happier with it being at Cardiff every year, at least we wouldn't eed to worry about the weather either

August bank holiday will see possibly 20% or more fans on holiday, many others will have recently returned a little lighter in the pocket
The bank holiday is early soccer season and the euphoria around that reduces column inches
End may has little competition and max exposure

That's good then. It pleases me that Speccy finds you way more popular than he does me. I was beginning to worry at one stage after he named me before he did you on that troll thread of his. There'll be no competition from me... he's all yours




Core values? Double standards? Very amusing

This is the Virtual Terrace. I have my own reasons for the SL attendance thread and none of those reasons pertain to satisfying any alleged "core values" and personal requirements of anyone. You may climb down from that self-appointed, loftier-than-thou troll pedestal of yours now.


And opinions are like @rseho... oh, hang on... what's this?


Doesn't seem to be a problem down under where the game is frequently marketed around it's history... where they celebrate past players and past exploits... State of Origin being the most obvious example which harks back to it's history all the time. They couldn't market it successfully any other way. The trophy for the NRL premiers contains a sculpture of former greats Norm Provan and Arthur Summons caked in mud! So long as Richard Lewis thinks that kind of thing is crap though. Quite a stark difference between that and Super League's attitude to the games history... the game used to be rubbish but now it's all modern and great. Wow! That's really worked well since 1996 hasn't it? Your dismissive attitude to the history of the game and it's lack of importance (where the SL marketing strategy is basically everything was crap before SL and that includes Billy Boston) is noted.


If the Super League era is entitled to claim credit for increased domestic attendances based on the uptake of cheap season tickets then it is entitled to take responsibility for the games current failures too... the failed franchising experiment, lower overall CC attendances, lower Championship attendances, lower international attendances, less high profile games on terrestrial TV, lower profile of the sport in the media, lack of sponsorship, deteriorating playing standards, etc.

Worry about the weather? I don't much like the new Wembley but the idea of doing away with one of the increasingly few factors that promotes variety in the games we watch appeals even less. Yes, the 2013 final was pretty dire but the other side of that coin is that we've all seen some utterly compelling games played out in diabolical conditions. I'm too young to have seen the notorious 68 watersplash final but I bet that was no classic either. It seems to have stuck in the memories of those who did though.

Jeff,
You would like a return to winter rugby - I am unsure as to why you think that would be a good idea?