Although you seem to have misread/misunderstood my post, it's pretty sad that you and other fans view the pinnacle of international RL as 'beating the Aussies'. Quite frankly I couldn't care less if England beat the Aussies or not.

The only reason you think Ben Barba and Trent Hodkinson are world beaters and better than the likes of Tomkins and Myler is because they play in the NRL. If Myler or Tomkins were Australian, you would be creaming your pants over them. It's an absolutely pathetic mentality.

I think a much bigger problem for the England set up then the amount of overseas players playing here is just how over hyped our players are simply becuase they are English, until we realise and accept there is something wrong with the way players are trained at an early age rather then blame it on overseas players nothing will change, to say Westwood and J Tomkins are better players then Manu is a joke, all three offer very different qualities, had he actually been English he would have been an excellent addition to the squad, but have to agree with the sentiments of many about his age and that he isnt really English, it shouldnt have happened.

You don't think that (consistently) beating the most dominant team in international RL is a useful yardstick?

If he's calling up anyone then he should get on the phone to Pat Richards and ask him,

Here's another stat for you then;

J.Tomkins
Errors - 22
Penalties - 27

Those tackle bust stats show that Manu offers something different to our other 2nd Row options and why, IMO, he is a better option coming off the bench then the other candidates for the position. Nobody claimed it was an indicater of how good a player he is.

LOL,

Henry Paul and Les Vainakolo have represented England and NZ. Irrespective of which sport it is, they have represented another country.

There are a whole host of footballers who have played for more than one country. Going back a few years wasn't it Alberto Di Stefano who played for Brazil, Spain and Portugal?

I think John Fashanu played for England and Nigeria.

yeah...IN DIFFERENT BLOODY SPORTS!



yeah...50 years ago..



never played for nigeria on account that he's got 2 caps for england...

Di Stefano played for Argentina, Colombia (although I think there is a debate about whether those games were FIFA sanctioned) and Spain. Ladislao Kubala played for Czechoslovakia, Hungary and Spain. As I mentioned on the Hull board 3 of Italy's 1934 FIFA World Cup winning team were Argentines who had previously played for Argentina and two of them later reverted to the land of their birth.

The thing about Di Stefano and Kubala is that they were brilliant. Along with Ferenc Puskas (85 caps for Hungary, 4 for Spain), they were they were the very best of their era.
Willie Manu is pretty good, towards the front of the peloton behind incumbents Ellis, Burgess and Westwood. He is a different type of player, perhaps picked to fill a particular niche. But then, why not Lauitiiti? It just seems to be inviting ridicule/controversy for the sake of it. It's not like the bookies will be rushing to shorten England's odds for the 4 nations or that we're suddenly thinking 'this year, just maybe...'
If he was 25, it'd be different but at 30 he won't have much improvement in him.

Chris Riley is English and the SL leading try scorer. Just wondered why he hasn't been selected at least for the squad.

From a Warrington perspective, Paul Wood has been comfortably better than Carvell this season and also has a great offloading game (more offloads this season than Solomona). Another odd choice.

Also confused about the absence of Joel Tomkins, he would make a great mongrel dog back row partner to Westwood .

Neither of which will get in ahead of Ellis and Burgess anyway.

I said on the Fielden thread that I didn't think Carvell has had that great a season. Wood would definately be ahead of him in the pecking order imo. He's been great, im not sure about GB class though

If SL clubs are being forced to quickly fall in line with the number of overseas and home grown players, surely the least we can expect of the national coach is that he just selects English players?

On a technicality, Riley is only the 2nd leading English try scorer after Goulding. Same number of tries, but Goulding has played 6 fewer games.

Manu shouldn't play for England...full stop. He was born in Australia and has played for Tonga....just because he's lived here for a few years he shouldn't be able to play for England. It'd be different if he had spent the majority of his life in this country and had never played international RL for another country....but he doesn't meet either of these criteria...so picking him would be plain embarrasing.

How many 2nd rowers do England have anyway?? Its probably our strongest position and we have to go and draft Manu into the squad. I guess you could at a push place him as a strong running centre (Which is England's weakest position)...but I still don't think he should be in the squad as per my first paragraph.

if he played for tonga in last years pacific cup,manu was in the official tongan squad, he's ineligible anyway...no matter how long he's been here...

The rule won't be enforced though so it doesn't really matter.

Its is against the rules in union and football now, to swap countries.

In rugby league it isnt.

im surprised chris riley,darrell goulding and david hodgson haven't got a nod, after all they are the top 3 English try scorers in the super league, yet leroy cudjoe,jodie broughton,lee smith,paul sykes and ryan hall did,im not suggesting those aren't good players but surely if we are going to pick players on form then riley,goulding and hodgson should be contenders?

Perhaps, maybe coaches judge players on other aspects of their performances other than tries scored.

No you're right, i must be an idiot in not wanting to pick a winger who has 5 other english wingers in front of him in the top try scorers list and isn't in the top 25 metre makers unlike Hodgson, Fox & Hall,

Goulding, Riley Hodgson not picked and all better than Briscoe..... So instead of resorting to name calling try and have a rational debate for once

I disagree. Though Tom Briscoe hasn't scored many tries he has scored some great ones whereas a lot of the tries I've seen Goulding, Riley and Hodgson score are walk ins in the corner. Now that's not a bad way to score a try (obviously there isn't a bad way) but it's more down to the ability of their team mates to put them in rather than their ability to catch, run 4 meters and then put the ball down.

Though he might not be in the top 25 metre makers that may be because people don't kick towards him as they know he's a good returner of the ball, if you have Richard Whiting on one wing and Tom Briscoe on the other teams will obviously kick towards Whiting (no disrespect to Rich). Ultimately his average meters per carry is higher than Hall's, about the same as Fox's and quite a bit behind Hodgson (Though Hodgson has double the amount of clean breaks).

I think Tom Briscoe is a quality player and although I rate Fox and Hall too I think Briscoe is much better than Riley, Goulding and Hodgson.

Don't get me wrong i think he will only get better i just dont think he's there at the minute. Confidence is a big thing for wingers and surely playing in and scoring in a top side ie goulding at wigan hall at leeds gives a winger that extra edge

Doing that was enough to get Ade Gardner in the GB team

Has Willie Manu managed to clamber out of England international backrower Joel Tomkins pocket yet?

Says the kr fan