I agree that Flanagan would not get in a starting line up before Sean O, but Flanagan is getting into a starting 13 in the best RL competition in the world and is improving of what i have seen of him on tv. He will surely be on a shortlist for the tour down under if he keeps up this rate of progression. The only problem i could see for Widdop is when Slater comes back into the Melbourne team this week and in the future. But iam sure that the Melbourne coaching staff will find a place for him in the team going forward after that performance against Canterbury. To be truthful i cant think of a fullback outside of Widdop who is good enough to play for England? S Briscoe is an honest player but looks as fast as a slug at the international level. It is a good job another fullback option has fallen into our laps. But this was by luck rather than judgement. Because i think Widdop is a product of the Aussie system. Not ours.

Widdop was 15 when he went out. Unless he was already very good there is no way Melbourne would have taken him on. His comments about only making the amateur system over here are interesting. Someone needs to ask why? Is it because Halifax are outside SL and don't have a fulltime academy system, because of the quality of our coaches or just simply because the sport is so small time that there isn't enough of a ladder up to Super League?

With Widdop, Eastmond, Tomkins and Burgess England are starting to develop some real dangermen, the kind of players who can turn a game in one moment.

I'll watch the tape again and see if it was indeed his fault, since you can remember who was at fault for all the tries perhaps you can give us a run down of how many tries each player was responsible for?

Where have i slagged of any players or clubs? or do you just see what you want to see and ignore what actually happening?

The fact that you are blaming the defeat on one player makes it pretty clear that its you who enjoys slagging off our players.

shenton and hall were our best backs defensivly

Exactly shenton and hall were our best backs defensivly, and got far less ball than the other side of the field so its not really a far comparison in attack.

double post.

I remember Hall having a very good four natoins.

Whenever a squad is announced it's met with the same negative posts. Even with great players in the past, Davies, Offiah, Hanley et all. we had a no better record than now. We have some exciting young players coming through, namely the 3 young half backs, Burgess. Ellis and Graham are as good as anyone in their position, it's not all doom and gloom, we have some good players.

Last year we got one step further and made the final. We were within 6-10 points of the Aussies up the final just after half time. We need to stay positive that we can do it over a series.

Over a single game might be a start

We didn't go with Greenshields because he's injured, as he's nationalised French, lives in France and is married to a French woman I don't have an issue with his inclusion in the side.

With these players I see our squad as:
FB: Pelo (would rather have Greenshields here and Pelo on Wing)
Wing: Vaccari and Duport
Centres: Raguin and Touxagas?
Halves: Bosc and Gigot?
LF: Mounis
Backrow: Elima and Fakir?
Front Row: Ferriol, K. Bently, Guisset
Bench: Casty, Gossard, Simon, A. Bently

I could possibly see Griffi involved to add an old head to the mix or maybe Villagas in for Duport with Duport vying with Touxagas for a centre spot. We could do with more options at SO and Hooker.
Some good young prospects there, but we are a good 5 players short of giving England a good run for their money.

IMO Pryce, Burrow and McGuire should not be in the England squad. Pryce has never shown up at international level and the other 2 are running support players only. Burrow and McG need to have more to their game to be effective at the top level.

How long's Baille out for with that injury?
I'd rather see Duport at centre and another winger for the froggies

Guisset is done with France now, isn't he?

Also what happened to the young half back who played the last 15 or so mins of the game last year? First name William IIRC. Looked promising.

I remember the try he went missing for becasue it was so crucial, given the context which I put in the last post I am unlikey to forget it, similar to Sykes knocking on in Brisbane
I brought this issue up as I find it ridiclous the decriptions given as him being defensively sound and it was all going so well until he went off, the time for more detailed match analysis was at the time so i wont be talking about other tries we conceded
I guessed you were one of those fans who go to cheer their own clubs players and score points off other clubs players and fans becasue you are so eager to defend a Cas player's mistakes, even suggesting it didnt happen despite me not being alone in pointing it out and that you have not gone back and checked (id guess your mind is made up anyway)
I have not blamed the defeat on just one player, he was at fault for a crucial part of it though, I take no pleasure whatsoever in another year passing without a series win over australia

You are clueless.

So the Leeds lads are now creative handling geniuses with a kicking game that can keep turning an opposition team around? Pryce has not got the fine handling and kicking skills either for the top level.

Watch [url=http://www.amazon.co.uk/Marching-Together-Rhinos-Engage-Chamions-2007-2009/dp/B002TJBPSQthis[/url, then come back



Not as a stand off, no

Put your club bias to one side when looking at the halves at Leeds Hopie. Burrow and McG can play how they do at Leeds because of Sinfield. He does a lot of the organising and positional kicking. When it comes to international football when a halfback needs to be an organiser/handler/allround kicker set they both come up short. I like Rob Burrow. He is sharp and good to watch in full flow, with a big heart. But both him and Danny have holes in the game that is magnified at the top level. Compare the two Leeds halves with the likes of Thurston, Lockyer, Cronk, Barrett, Orford, Soward, Finch, Kimmorley et al. The Leeds lads come nowhere near. At the moment the pair IMO are behind Eastmond, Tomkins and Myler for England and rightly so because while these lads are not the finished article, their overall skill set for a 7 or 6 is better than the Leeds pair. Just because Leeds have done well in SL in recent years does not mean the the halves in that team are the better skilled players in their positions.

You have to question a few selections in this England midseason test. Whilst I’m more than happy with what team Steve has put forward. I find it disheartening that he’s not giving much chance for people to take the places of the more longer serving members of this establishment.

Just seems to me that Steve’s gone for the easiest option and picked players that’ll more a less be going over to Australia by the end of the season anyways. The way Catalan Dragons have performed this year this England squad could be looking at a record score against the French.

If we don’t then it just shows lack of ambition of the current squad.

good post.

Widdop had to be picked. Even if he is not good enough now by all accounts he will be so securing him for Englands international future is a very smart move. As a nation we have a forward pack to match that of australia and new zeland but we have a massive problem in the backs. I hope and believe Tomkins, Eastmond and Myler will develop into top class internationals, they're all good players now but not quite there yet but the three quarters are at best all solid players. We need some with a combination of pace, size and skill.

For as long as i've been watching the greatest game our biggest problem has been in the mind. I'm not sure, when it comes to Australia the players actually believe they can win, as long as that remains the case we will never beat them when it matters.

Souths used the same argument when they initially refused to release Sam Burgess for this test match. Few NRL players, let alone elite test stars like Darren Lockyer or Johnathon Thurston, are asked to play against semi pro teams, let alone the week before a test match.



Saints fans disagreed on this topic near end of page 1: [url=http://viewtopic.php?f=18&t=457763The Barrow Clans are Gathering[/url

From 2003 to 2009, the average points differential between a SL and a Championship/C1/NL club was 41 points. SL clubs have won 88 of those ties, and semi pro clubs have won 3 times. Barrow's chance was and should have been minimal, and elite players like Eastmond should be rested from a match like that.



NZ's resources are a fraction of yours, and they have defeated Australia in two recent series. Elite player management, and the structure of elite competitions, is the real issue.

PLAYER BASE
OVERALL PARTICIPATION
NZRL - 16,728 (SPARC Review 2009)
RFL 62,463 (2004), [url=http://www.sportfocus.com/newspub/story.cfm?ID=32299285,000 in 2009[/url),

English RL anywhere from 5 to 20 times as many players as NZRL.

OVERSEAS IMPORTS
Australian NRL system (not including NZ Warriors or Auckland Vulcans NSW Cup team) - 92 overseas players
NZ Warriors/Auckland Vulcans - 7 overseas players. 28% of NRL squad.

PRO CLUBS
England
Full time = 12 Super League
Part Time = 20 Champ/C1

NZ
Full time = 1 (Warriors)
Part Time = 1 (Auckland Vulcans NSW Cup)

Also, the Kiwis have capped at least seventeen players born and/or trained overseas since 1996.

SERIES/TOURNAMENT VICTORIES OVER AUSTRALIA SINCE 1996 (since full time professionalism)
KIWIS - RLWC 2008, 3N 2005
ENGLAND/GB - nil.

You guessed i was there to slag off players because i was supporting one of them? thats a pretty strange jump of logic, Since you were defending mguire earlier on in the thread does that mean you went to the tournemount soley to cheer on your own clubs players and to boo those of other clubs?
I was supporting them all, for me there club didnt matter while they were playing in that tournemount, i did watch the players who were new especially though such as shenton, easmond, tompkins, bridge and crabtree. I never said shenton was defensivley perfect, indeed there is no such player (at least not to my knowledge) but he was our best back in defence, he managed to restrict the aussies to just two tries down in his side for about 145 minutes which is about as good or better than i can remember any England/Great britain centre doing for the last 10 years, he did more tackling than any other back and hardly missed one and made a couple of very important tackles (the one where he chased down an aussie player that had broken through and forced a knock on was top notch, as was him combining with hall to send an aussie player into touch near the england line) which considering this was his debut tournemount is pretty good.

I've attempted to check it on video, unfortunatly the 'highlights video' available has very little game footage and thats at ground level with the players blocking most of the action. As far as i'm aware your the only one on this thread that has blamed shenton for anything (apart from being knocked unconcious) and i cant recall shenton being blamed at the time of the tournemount (any chance to blame a cas player for england losing would have been a bandwagon that many wouldnt have been able to resist jumping on). So we have only your opinion, and since you have singled out shenton defence as a crucial reason we lost despite the vast majority of points scored by the aussies in both games were at the other side of the field (at least whilst shenton was on the field) and shenton being our best back in defence, you dont come off as the most objective or reliable source.

Mcguire has carried a team this season without burrow and sinfield and he has done 80% of the kicking when they haven't been on the field. If mcguire comes nowhere near the aussies tomkins and myler are light years away. If you still think mcguire is a support player i suggest you watch a game from after 2005. Tomkins, Eastmond and Myler have all played in teams which are doing well and a lot of players look like world beaters when the pack is dominating but none have played in a team like Leeds this year which has been hit by injury and stood out.

Wasn't there the same number of tries scored down his side in the half a match he was off injured and the rest of the quad nations? Best defensive back by a mile in my view.