Yes success does increase crowds but only one or two teams can win something each year so the effect of winning trophies on crowds overall would I think be minimal. Furthermore, a new club winning something, say Huddersfield, means that another club, Leeds, doesn't so what effect does that have on Leeds' crowds? By your theory they will go down by about the same amount that Huddersfields goes up.

dont think it anything to do with the salary cap really.hull i would guess have got more financial clout than saints.bradford haven't been the same since they were done for breaking the salary cap, arnt there gates down 4/5thou from a few years back.what can you say about cas eccept well done hope you keep it up.imo the best way to tell if the cap is working is at the end of the season if 2 team from say sal/wakey/cas/quinns/cats get in the top 6 i'd say its working

once new fans have a taste of it, they wont walk away if the club is well managed.

so hudds winning it might see their crowds rise 5000 or more, but leeds crowds wont fall by the same amount. indeed with good marketing, leeds have had enough recent success to have loyalty

a good example is wigan. all their success 80s/90s has bred fan loyalty today.

new grounds, well managed and marketed clubs, each club spending the full salary cap. thats the future.

on field success shared around by as many clubs as possible

without a salary cap, what chance would cas ever have of beating leeds at headingly.

sure its only 1 result but you get the picture

with no salary cap, leeds can spend double or tripple on players than cas can, so barring a mircale, leeds always win.

thats boring. soccer can get away with it because you have european competition to test the big clubs. and because the game is so big

RL stagnates with 3 clubs being succesful every 10 - 20 years.

I do, sort of, agree with your line of reasoning but I don't think actually winning trophies is the key. I think There are too few of them to make a difference in the way you suggest and to actually win one involves a huge number of variables over which the winning club(s) has no control, winning trophies must be considered a bonus.

However, if supporters know that on any given day their team has a good chance of defeating any other team in the competition (brought about in the way you suggest) then that will encourage greater overall attendance numbers.

the salary cap should increase competition and protect the clubs financially, however if you consider a team like wigan.

an excellent stadium, very good attendances and sponsorship, a host of international stars etc.

even with everything above in place spending £1.7million on players wages is far more than the club can afford or generate.

they therefore are not financially viable and are a rich mans folly. lets hope the sugar daddies dont get bored or dis illusioned with the game otherwise the club and many others in the same boat would be left high and dry.

the sugar daddies are effectively making a mockery of the salary cap, by allowing teams to spend more than they can really afford.

You have to bear in mind that the article seems to have been written for the benefit of sports lawyers to argue that their client is being unfairly discriminated against.

Revenue sharing is mooted because it doesn't interfere with the ability of the players to make money (in the short-run at least). That's what they care about.

Players may take into account the likelyhood of first-team action but given their egos, they may well have an unrealistic view of the likelyhood of getting this. Young players are also quite likely to be willing to wait and even feel that they gain some benefit in being understudy to a rugby league great e.g. Roby and Cunningham.

Super Teams will buy up players not just for their own benefit because they think that this player will add anything to their squad but also to deprive a rival team of that player.

Celtic's Jock Stein once said that if there were two equally good players; one Catholic and one Protestant then he would sign the Protestant because Rangers couldn't sign the Catholic.

why?

if all clubs were forced to take the pain for a time then there wouldnt be a huuuuge gulf in class at that point and they would still be a competitive league. It would just mean you needed to scout and train the best british players to be top of that league, if you didnt you wouldnt, and you wouldnt have the option of being the top of that league by taking the easy option of ready trained average Australians

yes, it will.

The issue of foreign players in the PL isnt ignored. and they have implemented rules in the lower divisions to promote young players trained by those clubs to first team.

Uefa are also pushing more and more for something similar. They have limits in Serie A and Spain. The PL is lagging behind here

nobody is saying they are responsible for all the pathways, simply the one which can only be their responsibility, and thats the one to elite level

i expect more from Elite clubs than simply surviving.

i dont disagree, because that isnt what i said
hence how our league is teeming with british talent and we only need to bring in the top players from overseas, oh wait
increased international game increase revenues to the rfl which can be re-invested in the grass-roots, where if they werent idiots the clubs can form a team. It increases visibility of the players and the game increasing the visibility of the clubs then increasing revenues for the clubs, putting them on a more stable footing

It happened last year

hth

you beat us last year aswell.

so one win to you and one to us not making a game attractive to you seems to be a better counterargument to the 'balance' effect

the salary cap makes a mockery of the salary cap by allowing teams to spend more than they can afford

Indeed, it might have been surprising last year but this year?

Can this really be called a shock?

Not in my view. Huddersfield are a bigger team than Bradford these days.

i agree, i think huddersfield will finish above bradford again this year

its also important to note (in this context) that Bradford are the ones needing the SC right now as they dont have a sugar daddy, where as huddersfield could spend above it if they so wished

....and if that wasn't in place, we would have zero english players in SL. We have more than zero players in SL. Therefore it is in place.


As does everyone, clubs included, and it's what we hav. I don't know why you would think any different.


Wait...yes it is teeming with British talent. The fact that the relatively strong economic position enables teams to use other sources of players doesn't detract from that.



You were talking "improved international side" and have now jumped to "increased international game" Whithe change and jump in thoughts?
If it's just revenue, thare are far easier and more effective ways to do that. Another round of SL games will bring in more than an international.

No it wont , the question was the fans , not the sports administration , the fans dont care who is playing for their team if they are winning , and in RL the fans do bring in a large % of income , the next largest income provider also couldn't care less how the clubs playing rosters are made up , that being SKY , and then you are looking at sponsors and owner investment , ditto as long as you are winning they will also be happy

i have never argued that there was nothing in place, simply not enough


well then they can bring through more youth players without a problem then cant they





yes, its the economic strength of the game that means we need to bring in second tier australians because they are better than the vast majority of our players.

if we are so strong economically why arent we bringing in the Gasniers? the Thurstons? an Inglis or a Marshall?



its a fairly simple conclusion that an improved international side and an improved international game will go hand in hand. Well i thought it obvious anyway

and another round of SL games wouldnt bring in near the amount of money an successful international competition makes, and that's ignoring in the less tangible benefits of increased exposure and visibility. Not to mention the improvement in image.

Quote ="Starbug"No it wont , the question was the fans , not the sports administration , the fans dont care who is playing for their team if they are winning , and in RL the fans do bring in a large % of income , the next largest income provider also couldn't care less how the clubs playing rosters are made up , that being SKY , and then you are looking at sponsors and owner investment , ditto as long as you are winning they will also be happy'" except they do and they are doing something about it. It is also an issue, one that gets plenty of media coverage, one the fans do care about and make their feelings known and one that is being dealt with www.sportingo.com/football/a3624 ... ership-bad www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... eover.html www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... -game.html www.soccerglobe.net/2009/06/26/test/ www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... plans.html

Quote ="Starbug"No it wont , the question was the fans , not the sports administration , the fans dont care who is playing for their team if they are winning , and in RL the fans do bring in a large % of income , the next largest income provider also couldn't care less how the clubs playing rosters are made up , that being SKY , and then you are looking at sponsors and owner investment , ditto as long as you are winning they will also be happy'" except they do and they are doing something about it. It is also an issue, one that gets plenty of media coverage, one the fans do care about and make their feelings known and one that is being dealt with www.sportingo.com/football/a3624 ... ership-bad www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... eover.html www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... -game.html www.soccerglobe.net/2009/06/26/test/ www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... plans.html

Quote ="SmokeyTA"except they do and they are doing something about it. It is also an issue, one that gets plenty of media coverage, one the fans do care about and make their feelings known and one that is being dealt with www.sportingo.com/football/a3624 ... ership-bad www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... eover.html www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... -game.html www.soccerglobe.net/2009/06/26/test/ www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... plans.html'" So a few articles from journalists stating the obvious about football , find me some from owners or top level coaches/managers stating the same What we do have is the leaders of FIFA and EUAFA fed up of English clubs dominating thier club competitions and the domination of the Premier league from a financial point compared to the other leagues , they dont like the idea of all their best players wanting to play in England because that is where the money is , however if Platini was playing now , he would be playing in England taking the money just as so many others are The fans , owners,coaches and players couldn't care less

Quote ="SmokeyTA"except they do and they are doing something about it. It is also an issue, one that gets plenty of media coverage, one the fans do care about and make their feelings known and one that is being dealt with www.sportingo.com/football/a3624 ... ership-bad www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... eover.html www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... -game.html www.soccerglobe.net/2009/06/26/test/ www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... plans.html'" So a few articles from journalists stating the obvious about football , find me some from owners or top level coaches/managers stating the same What we do have is the leaders of FIFA and EUAFA fed up of English clubs dominating thier club competitions and the domination of the Premier league from a financial point compared to the other leagues , they dont like the idea of all their best players wanting to play in England because that is where the money is , however if Platini was playing now , he would be playing in England taking the money just as so many others are The fans , owners,coaches and players couldn't care less

Quote ="Starbug"So a few articles from journalists stating the obvious about football , find me some from owners or top level coaches/managers stating the same What we do have is the leaders of FIFA and EUAFA fed up of English clubs dominating thier club competitions and the domination of the Premier league from a financial point compared to the other leagues , they dont like the idea of all their best players wanting to play in England because that is where the money is , however if Platini was playing now , he would be playing in England taking the money just as so many others are The fans , owners,coaches and players couldn't care less'" do you mean managers like Steve Coppell? news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/7093565.stm Alex Ferguson? news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 080436.stm Johann Cruyff? www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... chman.html how about the chairman of the Premier League Dave Richards? www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... chief.html Gianfranco Zola? www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... ports.html as for players would the Professional footballers association chief Gordan Taylor suffice? news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 206981.stm

Quote ="Starbug"So a few articles from journalists stating the obvious about football , find me some from owners or top level coaches/managers stating the same What we do have is the leaders of FIFA and EUAFA fed up of English clubs dominating thier club competitions and the domination of the Premier league from a financial point compared to the other leagues , they dont like the idea of all their best players wanting to play in England because that is where the money is , however if Platini was playing now , he would be playing in England taking the money just as so many others are The fans , owners,coaches and players couldn't care less'" do you mean managers like Steve Coppell? news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/7093565.stm Alex Ferguson? news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 080436.stm Johann Cruyff? www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... chman.html how about the chairman of the Premier League Dave Richards? www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... chief.html Gianfranco Zola? www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... ports.html as for players would the Professional footballers association chief Gordan Taylor suffice? news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 206981.stm

What makes you think that?


What would they want to do that?


What do you expect? The best 320 players in the league to all be English?


Because we're not quite that strong.


Not at all. It isn't even necessarily a correct conclusion. A better England side isn't suddenly going to make international RL a top priority for the world. Even a 3-0 whitewash of the Kiwis didn't see a rise in interest in international RL.



Do the maths Smokey. Most internationals attract less fans than a single Rhinos game. Add in the other six fixtures from a round of SL games, and it's clear that in terms of revenue a round of SL games does far more.
There are other ways of getting exposure and visibility, other than the international game.

the quality of some of the imported players who play in this country

to become more sustainable, to have more 'local' players playing for them giving them a stronger link to their base, improve their strength in depth, to make a better contribution to the player pool



no, i simply expect us to be able to produce more, better players than we currently are doing. I dont expect us to produce 320 players so good the best of the Australians cant get in, i simply expect us to produce enough players ourselves so that players like James Evans, Scott Donald, Ben Fisher etc cant get in,

i have no problem with the best coming over, in fact i dont have a problem with 'good' players coming over. I just think that bringing over players like Mark Henry and Cameron Phelps is an admission we arent bringing through the required numbers of the required quality.

so its not a strength is it. Their second tier players being better than what we are currently bringing through isnt our economic strength its our development weakness. These players arent coming over here because wages are less in the NRL, they are coming over here because they arent good enough to earn the wage we pay them in the NRL
a one off series win against what was the 2nd string of the 2nd best side in the world isnt a sustained period of international competitiveness.


The world cup made a profit of £2m there is no round of SL games which makes a profit of £2m or even close. In fact over the course of a season most clubs make a loss, we could play a whole extra season and not make the profit the world cup made us as a game.

the 2004 tri-nations made the RFL £750k profit (not revenue, Profit) and was attended by 180k people. 3 times bigger than a well attended SL round for a similar amount of games. The final was attended by 40k people on its own over half the total attendance to 7 super league regular season games

The international tri-nations consisted of 7 games, which is a round of SL games, the income to the game was around £2m

the maths seem to add up

like?

Quote ="SmokeyTA"do you mean managers like Steve Coppell? news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/7093565.stm Alex Ferguson? news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 080436.stm Johann Cruyff? www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... chman.html how about the chairman of the Premier League Dave Richards? www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... chief.html Gianfranco Zola? www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... ports.html as for players would the Professional footballers association chief Gordan Taylor suffice? news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 206981.stm'" Fergie would be happy with it because they like the big RL clubs get the pick of the best young talent just because of their profile , as for the foreign coaches , they are just p155ed that their countries can no longer compete at CL level , then you have the british football players union , hardly going to be happy with it are they , , Gordon taylor has for many years stated how hard it has been for them dealing with players from abroad not wanting to be members of his organisation There has been no massive debate about it and as Fergie states , it would need a ' gentlemens ' agreement to work , so no chance , it doesn't work in RL with a rule as it is Any club will do anything it can to get a better squad , you will not change that , some even break RFL rules on the number of players on their scholarships

Quote ="SmokeyTA"do you mean managers like Steve Coppell? news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/7093565.stm Alex Ferguson? news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 080436.stm Johann Cruyff? www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... chman.html how about the chairman of the Premier League Dave Richards? www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... chief.html Gianfranco Zola? www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... ports.html as for players would the Professional footballers association chief Gordan Taylor suffice? news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 206981.stm'" Fergie would be happy with it because they like the big RL clubs get the pick of the best young talent just because of their profile , as for the foreign coaches , they are just p155ed that their countries can no longer compete at CL level , then you have the british football players union , hardly going to be happy with it are they , , Gordon taylor has for many years stated how hard it has been for them dealing with players from abroad not wanting to be members of his organisation There has been no massive debate about it and as Fergie states , it would need a ' gentlemens ' agreement to work , so no chance , it doesn't work in RL with a rule as it is Any club will do anything it can to get a better squad , you will not change that , some even break RFL rules on the number of players on their scholarships

Quote ="Starbug"Fergie would be happy with it because they like the big RL clubs get the pick of the best young talent just because of their profile'" So why would he want to have more clubs chasing those players (some with much more money) when they already get those players + more players from outside the country than other clubs if he didnt think it was for the good of the game? how are you going to try and dismiss Steve Coppells view? what about Sam Allardyce and Steve Bruce? www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... pects.html Quote as for the foreign coaches , they are just p155ed that their countries can no longer compete at CL level ,'" what about a foreign coach in this country like Gianfranco Zola? Quote then you have the british football players union , hardly going to be happy with it are they , , Gordon taylor has for many years stated how hard it has been for them dealing with players from abroad not wanting to be members of his organisation '" So as the representative of the players he doesnt represent the players? odd Quote There has been no massive debate about it and as Fergie states , it would need a ' gentlemens ' agreement to work , so no chance , it doesn't work in RL with a rule as it is '" other than the heads of fifa, Uefa, the FA, the PFA, the Premier League having their say they definitely havent debated it and other than changes being made at Football League level, European, and world level and having rules already existing in the major European Leagues bar the PL ( who definitely havent debated it, despite having a public position on it) its definitely not something they care about enough to say, make rules on it Quote Any club will do anything it can to get a better squad , you will not change that , some even break RFL rules on the number of players on their scholarships'" we can, we can put rules in place to stop encourage them to improve their squads through investments in training, scouting and youth development instead of bringing over players not good enough to for the NRL

Quote ="Starbug"Fergie would be happy with it because they like the big RL clubs get the pick of the best young talent just because of their profile'" So why would he want to have more clubs chasing those players (some with much more money) when they already get those players + more players from outside the country than other clubs if he didnt think it was for the good of the game? how are you going to try and dismiss Steve Coppells view? what about Sam Allardyce and Steve Bruce? www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... pects.html Quote as for the foreign coaches , they are just p155ed that their countries can no longer compete at CL level ,'" what about a foreign coach in this country like Gianfranco Zola? Quote then you have the british football players union , hardly going to be happy with it are they , , Gordon taylor has for many years stated how hard it has been for them dealing with players from abroad not wanting to be members of his organisation '" So as the representative of the players he doesnt represent the players? odd Quote There has been no massive debate about it and as Fergie states , it would need a ' gentlemens ' agreement to work , so no chance , it doesn't work in RL with a rule as it is '" other than the heads of fifa, Uefa, the FA, the PFA, the Premier League having their say they definitely havent debated it and other than changes being made at Football League level, European, and world level and having rules already existing in the major European Leagues bar the PL ( who definitely havent debated it, despite having a public position on it) its definitely not something they care about enough to say, make rules on it Quote Any club will do anything it can to get a better squad , you will not change that , some even break RFL rules on the number of players on their scholarships'" we can, we can put rules in place to stop encourage them to improve their squads through investments in training, scouting and youth development instead of bringing over players not good enough to for the NRL