[urlhttp://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/league/63446715/Bid-for-Wellington-NRL-team-officially-launched[/url

Let's see how the Aussies handle this one....

New Zealand have been World Champions and Four Nations champs twice in the last 6 years and deliver close to 20% of the NRL stars currently in the competition. A second team wouldn't just be great for the NRL, but I believe would be a massive boost to the game here in NZ. Wellington and the south Island may have less amateur sides than all of Auckland combined, but recent crowds here for the 4 nations (20,681/25,093) and Warriors (30,112/22,512) with very little promotion show that there is an appetite for the game outside of Auckland.

Are the NRL going to expand by a team or cut an existing one?

It would be good for the game as a whole to have two NZ teams, but the Warriors' track record on the field is poor given the talent they have available, which doesn't help any application.

Also, I have to say that despite the fact the Warriors bring small but enthusiastic crowds to games and the general entertainment value, it was noticeable that they were only featured once free to air last year (that I can remember), with Channel 9 preffering to show games between Sydney's lesser teams on a depressingly regular basis, rather than the generally far more entertaining (for the neutral) Warriors. That would suggest selling another NZ team to the Aussie public could be difficult?

Or maybe they get more paid subscriptions for the entertaining Warriors and so keep them on the non free to air broadcasts. That would in turn help the sale of the new Wellington franchise to the powers that be

Not sure Wellington is big enough to sustain an NRL team, the union club seems to struggle and that game is much bigger. Hurricanes made a financial loss last year and avg less than 11,000 fans. That would put them as one of the worse supported clubs in the NRL. If RL could be more popular than S15 in Wellington is an interesting question?

They would almost certainly be more entertaining though, wouldn't that be a plus in the Orca's favour?

The issues with the Hurricanes and the Lions in the level below is more to do with the stadium, the Wellington sporting public and the total arrogance of the Wellington RFU with regard to marketing.
The stadium is a major problem on a number of levels. First up, when it blows down here (They are called the hurricanes for a good reason) the stadium is horrible....the wind literally howls around the stadium and if you add rain to the mix, it's a pretty unpleasant way to spend 80 minutes after forking out $40+. It's an oval, to accommodate Cricket, so atmosphere is lacking too and then there's the catering which is run by thieves....I don't mind spending $8 (4 quid) on a pint at Wembley, but $7.50 here for a 270ml bottle of carlsberg is a total rip off.
Then there's the WRFU who like my old buddy David Hughes, believes sticking posts in the ground and announcing a KO time is marketing. Super 15 isn'r super as far as the public here are concerned and as long as there's nothing other than the same newspaper adverts run the crowds will stay at about 10k.....put it this way, I've attended All Black games at the stadium, but I've never received anything to "invite" me to a canes or lions game. I have on the other hand received invites to the AFL game on ANZAC day (4 free tickets and a beer voucher)....they still only got 14k this year and we pay them a million bux of ratepayers cash to come here.

The Warriors came here in 2013 and marketed the out of the game....Vodafone ran a text competition for 500 people to be in a special "fan zone" and released a special shirt (so unlike the warriors that

)....the result was 30k. Last year they didn't promote it at all and still got 22k.
For the 4 Nations final there was nothing other than a press shoot which the aussies turned up late for and a few flags at the railway station and we still got 25k.....so RL is popular enough down here.

The Orcas would need to average about 15k to be self sufficient and the whole bid is about the side being self sufficient, not reliant on individuals or gambling and being part of the community. Transport links to the stadium are spot on with direct routes to most of the RL areas. Unlike the Union, League has already got fairly strong ties within the regions we would tap into and it's general manager is very much hands on and well liked.

Wellington or NZ2 makes more sense than Brisbane 2 that will simply cannibalise the broncos fans, or Western Australia where the TV gains are minimal and they struggle to get 20k to the games they do host.

None of which suggests that a NRL team would be any more succesful than the Hurricanes. They will be in the same stadium and RL is hardly noted for its marketing geniuses. With a population of just 200k it is hard to see how they would generate enough income to be sutainable.

3 out of the last 4 games in perth have attracted 20k+ crowds, what struggle are you speaking of?

The NRL bid is based around communities stretching to Porirua and the Hutt Valley, which are all directly linked by public transport to the stadium. The Communities will "own" the club and therefore, there won't be the chance to have the general apathetic attitude that has crippled the Canes. These communities number over 450,000 in population and if priced correctly, I see no difficulty in getting a 15k average which I believe is the number needed to break even.




20,267 in 2014 together with 12,014 earlier in the year....

In 2013 they got 20,221.....in 2012 they got 15,599 (wasn't it ing down that day?).....struggling to find this 3rd 20k attendance.

By the way....22,000 is comfortably getting 20k......a couple of hundred over is a struggle....and Perth has a population 4 times the size of the region we would be taking our fans from.

Televisually(sic), Pert adds little to the NRL. 35,000 to 60,000 is what we get on NZ Pay TV here for an NRL game....The Warriors attract 100,000 to 150,000 more TV viewers when they are on TV. NRL hardly rates at all in Perth and even Wednesday Night funball only tapped 109,000 for this years decider and the NRL Grand Final 144K.....the fumbleballer final attracted 380k.
League rarely goes head to head here with Union, as the Warriors are at Home on Sundays, so it's fair to assume we'd bring another 170k eyeballs to the table....and if scheduled right, the NZ Derby would fill Eden Park/Cake Tin on ANZAC day or during the Origin period.

Well i hope the NRL have the foresight to let another NRL team in from New Zealand.
Best of luck to all concerned with the bid.

The NRL needs three (3) New Zealand teams in the NRL in order to grow the game. Wellington probably needs to be next because it already has an organized bid. However at some point in the not too distant future Christchurch needs to be added, to represent the South Island, with most of its home games in Christchurch and perhaps 25% in warm and sunny Dunedin. But that would have to be in 2023, to give Wellington time to establish itself, and to give Christchurch time to recover and rebuild from the earthquake.

Other people have organised bids.

I'm not sure if NZ will get a look in this time round.

NRL sides constantly recruit kids from NZ as it is.

All true......and very no comital

A second team in New Zealand is a no brainer, just look at the amount of players they produce.

I think the NRL should either expand to 18 with new teams in NZ, Central Coast and WA, dropping Cronulla down to the NSW cup.

Or expand to 20 with new teams in NZ, Central Coast , WA and 2 out of Cronulla/PNG/2nd Brisbane club.

That is a no goer. Cronulla will not be dropped, because it is licensed and viable. The Central Coast will not be added because it competes with Newcastle and Manly for sponsors. If the NRL expands to 18 it will be Perth and Brisbane. If it is expanded to 20 then Wellington has a very good chance, along with, perhaps, PNG.

I say yes, RL has never been stronger in NZ IMO, time to take it to the next level. It could be huge.

:

Problem is Wellington is probably not going to be able to sustain a team crowd wise or financially. And it probably also adds little to the TV deal (might boost the NZ sky deal a little but not much) it does not benefit the NRL bottom line. I'd love to see a Wellington team admitted but the lack of suitable stadium, population and value means it is unlikely anytime soon.

So that's your view from 12,000 miles away.

I think it could be a very big thing for the game, if they really plough into NZ.

Union in NZ is massive, there's no denying, but its Apparently taking a licking in Australia. If we can build on progress and make some inroads into NZ too, then its possibly the greatest move league can make in the international competition between the two codes.
SA is untouchable for League, but making inroads into NZ is a real possibility.

lol

Union in Australia is taking money from every lower level of the game to prop up the five pro clubs, and even then those mere five teams are barely hanging on.

Union in NZ is huge though, for a country that would only be the fourth biggest state in Australia... The Auckland Nines has already overtaken the Wellington Sevens and the Warriors are going from strength to strength.

Every year the NRL alone earns multiple times what the three SANZAR nations make. There are all sorts of issues with the Island nations and the IRB too, Union in the Pacific is absolutely screwed.

Interesting assessment there and not far wrong.
wellington 7s are dead........killed off by the fun police who want limits set on the amount of booze available. It was never about the rugby but instead about the fancy dress party and fancy dress doesnt work sober.
the pacific islands are rightly demanding more money and control and are getting it, so whilst they are making noises, union is still the #1 sport in fiji, samoa and tonga.
The warriors have stagnated at mt smart and it has been their on the road games that have helped their balance sheets in recent years.....if we dont get nz2 then the warriors need more games around the country.
as for australia, the irb will continue to prop them up, because they need them, but you forget they do attract fans to internationals....200,000 at home this year and then theres the match fees for the end of year tours.
The size of the nrl tv deal is meaningless in terms of the region unless some of it is spent o expansion. The 2014 samoan rl side is not expansion........it will only be expansion when they have a domestic comp feeding players to the national side

I know you are a big fan of bringing a team from Wellington into the NRL. On a personal level would you like to get involved in some capacity if this comes to fruition?

Perth and brisbane are dead certs. The NRL has taken over the WARL and rebranded it NRLWA for a reason. The NRL has put expansion firmly back on the agenda, with Perth a favourite to be offered a side when a new TV rights deal is struck. PERTH FAVOURED TO FIELD NRL TEAM The current $1.2 billion broadcast agreement finishes at the end of the 2017 season, but the NRL has confirmed expansion talks for 2018 will start next year, with plans to invest more than $200 million in the game. NRL officials were in Perth this week for discussions with State Government and local league representatives as the competition changed its name from the WARL to NRLWA. NRLWA has already registered the West Coast Pirates as the name for its franchise bid. https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/sport ... -nrl-team/

Perth and brisbane are dead certs. The NRL has taken over the WARL and rebranded it NRLWA for a reason. The NRL has put expansion firmly back on the agenda, with Perth a favourite to be offered a side when a new TV rights deal is struck. PERTH FAVOURED TO FIELD NRL TEAM The current $1.2 billion broadcast agreement finishes at the end of the 2017 season, but the NRL has confirmed expansion talks for 2018 will start next year, with plans to invest more than $200 million in the game. NRL officials were in Perth this week for discussions with State Government and local league representatives as the competition changed its name from the WARL to NRLWA. NRLWA has already registered the West Coast Pirates as the name for its franchise bid. https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/sport ... -nrl-team/

Quote ="JB Down Under"Perth and brisbane are dead certs. The NRL has taken over the WARL and rebranded it NRLWA for a reason. The NRL has put expansion firmly back on the agenda, with Perth a favourite to be offered a side when a new TV rights deal is struck. PERTH FAVOURED TO FIELD NRL TEAM The current $1.2 billion broadcast agreement finishes at the end of the 2017 season, but the NRL has confirmed expansion talks for 2018 will start next year, with plans to invest more than $200 million in the game. NRL officials were in Perth this week for discussions with State Government and local league representatives as the competition changed its name from the WARL to NRLWA. NRLWA has already registered the West Coast Pirates as the name for its franchise bid. https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/sport ... -nrl-team/'" There was the ill-fated Perth Western Reds. Why did they fail, and why will this one succeed? Is it just a case of the increased draw of RL?

Quote ="JB Down Under"Perth and brisbane are dead certs. The NRL has taken over the WARL and rebranded it NRLWA for a reason. The NRL has put expansion firmly back on the agenda, with Perth a favourite to be offered a side when a new TV rights deal is struck. PERTH FAVOURED TO FIELD NRL TEAM The current $1.2 billion broadcast agreement finishes at the end of the 2017 season, but the NRL has confirmed expansion talks for 2018 will start next year, with plans to invest more than $200 million in the game. NRL officials were in Perth this week for discussions with State Government and local league representatives as the competition changed its name from the WARL to NRLWA. NRLWA has already registered the West Coast Pirates as the name for its franchise bid. https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/sport ... -nrl-team/'" There was the ill-fated Perth Western Reds. Why did they fail, and why will this one succeed? Is it just a case of the increased draw of RL?

5 main differences:
1. Western Reds were financially screwed from day one due to the ARL not being able to afford expansion and making the reds pay all travel and accomodation costs for themselves and visiting teams
2. Perths population has grown nearly 500k with many of these new comers being East coast, kiwi and pommie RL fans. WA is tipped to grow another 1million over next 20 years.
3. Perth now has a decent 21,500 capacity rectangular stadium, the Reds played at the waca which was god awful for watching rl at.
4. SuperLeague war, disillusioned fans walked away from the game and caused a drop in attendances from 1995-1997
5. Decent corporate support waiting to back a club. We have a 7 figure main sponsor lined up ready to go.