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| Samuel Eli Tomkins has been a huge disappointment, according to Tony Smith's older brother, Brian, writing in Rugby League Week.
That article was written before last night's woeful performance by Tomkins in NZ Warriors match against Brisbane. Lucky that his team won, because Sam Tomkins let the side down badly with two pathetic attempts to tackle Ben Barba. Those missed tackles allowed Barba to score a try and put them within striking distance of the Warriors.
If Sam doesn't improve his defence I could foresee Sam released by the NZ Warriors on "compassionate grounds" to be "closer to his family" and Wigan fan base.
Let's not forget that Ian Lenagan has spoken of the likely return of Sam Tomkins to Wigan at some point. That point could be sooner than Sam had originally planned unless Sam Tomkins can improve his defence.
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| He wasn't signed for his defence was he? If he was they are crazy.
He was signed as he scored a crap load of tries and was pivotal in wigwams play, but in NZ they don't or at least I don't think they organise around him do they?
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| He needs decent service in attacking positions. He's just sort of coasting through some games and barely getting his hands on the ball. Then when he has a lapse in defence it makes it look like he's had a bad game (though he's nowhere near as bad as some make out -the attempt on Barba this morning was bad however).
They spent all that money getting him out there, play to a system that suits him. The service he gets from Johnson and in particular Townsend is woeful, I'd be interested to see the stats of number of times he touches the ball per game for the NZW compares to his time at Wigan.
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| Quote ="WARRIORCRAIG"He needs decent service in attacking positions. He's just sort of coasting through some games and barely getting his hands on the ball. Then when he has a lapse in defence it makes it look like he's had a bad game (though he's nowhere near as bad as some make out -the attempt on Barba this morning was bad however).
They spent all that money getting him out there, play to a system that suits him. The service he gets from Johnson and in particular Townsend is woeful, I'd be interested to see the stats of number of times he touches the ball per game for the NZW compares to his time at Wigan.'"
He's been used in a similiar way to what he was at wigan, out the back on the fringes. It's just defences are alot smarter and tougher so he's simply not found the same space and been able to break through better defences.
He's been awful in defence and exposed numerous times.
It's not suprise to see wigan fans beefing and jumping to his defence but the fact remains for the money paid for him, he's been a mixed bag. Some nice touches in attack, not often enough, and awful in defence.
In the NRL, where performances are measured by higher standards than they are in the mickey mouse super league, tomkins has been poor.
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| Quote ="broadybull87"He wasn't signed for his defence was he? If he was they are crazy.
He was signed as he scored a crap load of tries and was pivotal in wigwams play, but in NZ they don't or at least I don't think they organise around him do they?'"
He was signed for his attacking play. He's not been an attacking force so far. He's had some good touches here and there. But again, with some of the other players in the league, it's not really anything special that he's done.
They don't organise around him? Why should they? They have other fantastic players in pivot positions like johnson. To ''organise around him'' would detriment the team. It's up to tomkins to assert his authority on play and he is failing. The only thing he is successful at is being a turnstyle in defence.
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| Quote ="JEAN CAPDOUZE"Samuel Eli Tomkins has been a huge disappointment, according to Tony Smith's older brother, Brian, writing in Rugby League Week.
That article was written before last night's woeful performance by Tomkins in NZ Warriors match against Brisbane. Lucky that his team won, because Sam Tomkins let the side down badly with two pathetic attempts to tackle Ben Barba. Those missed tackles allowed Barba to score a try and put them within striking distance of the Warriors.
If Sam doesn't improve his defence I could foresee Sam released by the NZ Warriors on "compassionate grounds" to be "closer to his family" and Wigan fan base.
Let's not forget that Ian Lenagan has spoken of the likely return of Sam Tomkins to Wigan at some point. That point could be sooner than Sam had originally planned unless Sam Tomkins can improve his defence.'"
What a ridiculous post. He hasn't hit top form but certainly hasn't been poor. People have short memories.
Ask Wigan fans what they thought of Pat Richards after the first half of his debut season or Warrington fans who wanted to send Matt King back home after 10-15 games. New life, new team, new competition - give the lad a chance. He has shown some great touches and made some silly mistakes. He will improve for sure.
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In the local Aussie media today.
[i
"Broncos fullback Ben Barba humiliated Sam Tomkins beating him both for speed and strength to burst past him and the fend him off twice to score with 20 minutes to go"[/i
Read more: www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/leag ... z35JNPaxPY
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In the local Aussie media today.
[i
"Broncos fullback Ben Barba humiliated Sam Tomkins beating him both for speed and strength to burst past him and the fend him off twice to score with 20 minutes to go"[/i
Read more: www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/leag ... z35JNPaxPY
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| I've posted a few times re Tomkins, who has been slammed by an informed Aussie media (made up of some of the greatest ex players and coaches the game has seen) for simply not been good enough at this level. In short Tomkins has been completely found out at this level.
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| Quote ="FlexWheeler"He's been used in a similiar way to what he was at wigan, out the back on the fringes. It's just defences are alot smarter and tougher so he's simply not found the same space and been able to break through better defences.
He's been awful in defence and exposed numerous times.
It's not suprise to see wigan fans beefing and jumping to his defence but the fact remains for the money paid for him, he's been a mixed bag. Some nice touches in attack, not often enough, and awful in defence.
In the NRL, where performances are measured by higher standards than they are in the mickey mouse super league, tomkins has been poor.'"
The NZW play nothing like Wigan do, he's basically being used as a 3rd half back in the attacking line for NZW. Far too many times they get a set in the opposition 20 and Tomkins gets in to a position out the back and either Townsend or Johnson go themselves or turn it inside for a forward, very frustrating to watch when we know what he's capable of in those positions. I'm not jumping to his defence becuase I'm a Wigan fan, I've watched every game he's played this season and he's had a few very good games, a few average ones and a few shockers.
It may take another preseason for the coaches and other creative players to work out some more effective systems to bring Tomkins in to the game more. But this simplistic view of "the NRL is loads better than SL and he can't hack it" is well wide of the mark IMO.
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| Quote ="Shoe Shine Johnny"What a ridiculous post. He hasn't hit top form but certainly hasn't been poor. People have short memories.
Ask Wigan fans what they thought of Pat Richards after the first half of his debut season or Warrington fans who wanted to send Matt King back home after 10-15 games. New life, new team, new competition - give the lad a chance. He has shown some great touches and made some silly mistakes. He will improve for sure.'"
He has been poor. He's on top money which makes it worse. This is the NRL not SL. Second chances are few and far between. Ive seen lads been drooped for less than some of the bloopers Tomkins has come up with. He has defo had moments of class but they are in amongst plenty of clangers. He needs to improve big time to have a career down here.
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| Quote ="WARRIORCRAIG"But this simplistic view of "the NRL is loads better than SL and he can't hack it" is well wide of the mark IMO.'" for a bloke on top money he can't hack it so far. He's on Inglis, Slater, Hayne money. He simply can't player at their level. It maybe a case of needing more time but he won't get much. If he's not doing the business week in week out and has lost a huge amount of bloopers from his game by mid next season he will be gone IMO.
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| Name me NZW player that's looked great this year!
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Quote ="Buggo"In the local Aussie media today.
[i
"Broncos fullback Ben Barba humiliated Sam Tomkins beating him both for speed and strength to burst past him and the fend him off twice to score with 20 minutes to go"[/i
Read more: www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/leag ... z35JNPaxPY'"
"humiliated" is the right word. I have not seen a more humiliating incident than this in many, many years of watching rugby league. To be honest, I actually felt sorry for Sam Tomkins, which is something that I never thought that I would ever feel before this weekend.
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Quote ="Buggo"In the local Aussie media today.
[i
"Broncos fullback Ben Barba humiliated Sam Tomkins beating him both for speed and strength to burst past him and the fend him off twice to score with 20 minutes to go"[/i
Read more: www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/leag ... z35JNPaxPY'"
"humiliated" is the right word. I have not seen a more humiliating incident than this in many, many years of watching rugby league. To be honest, I actually felt sorry for Sam Tomkins, which is something that I never thought that I would ever feel before this weekend.
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| Quote ="The Avenger"Name me NZW player that's looked great this year!'"
Shaun Johnson, Konrad Hurrell, Ngani Lmape, Simon Mannering, Nathan Friend and Ben Matulino for starters.
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| Quote ="JEAN CAPDOUZE"Shaun Johnson, Konrad Hurrell, Ngani Lmape, Simon Mannering, Nathan Friend and Ben Matulino for starters.'"
None of them have been particularly great this year and none have been significantly better than Tomkins either
Try again!
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| Quote ="JEAN CAPDOUZE""humiliated" is the right word. I have not seen a more humiliating incident than this in many, many years of watching rugby league. To be honest, I actually felt sorry for Sam Tomkins, which is something that I never thought that I would ever feel before this weekend.'"
Yeah cos Ben Barba has never beaten a defender on the outside before has he, FFS give yourself an uppercut!
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| Tomkins is getting challenged by far better players than he's used to in new ways. He will learn from this and kick on. He cannot learn it without being up against it. These are new challenges.
I hope he kicks on.
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| Quote ="Wellsy13"Tomkins is getting challenged by far better players than he's used to in new ways. He will learn from this and kick on. He cannot learn it without being up against it. These are new challenges.
I hope he kicks on.'"
About the only sane post in this thread. sgtwilko is an embarrassing Leeds muppet.
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| He's been poor in defence, and just average in attack... He's certainly not providing enough 'bang for the bucks' considering he's one of the top earners.
One of the glaring things I've noticed is that he seems reluctant to take on the line, particularly from kick returns or from dummy half. In superleague he ripped defences apart with kick returns, and with scoots following quick play the balls, but he's just shovelling the ball on at the moment in these situations for the Warriors. Add to that, the fact that the 'out the back' play that made him so successful at Wigan is easily defended in the NRL, and that explains why he's struggling in attack.
The defences are far too organised and good in the NRL for him at the moment. In superleague, a wirey, quick and deceptively strong runner playing in a dominating team is too much for the defences to handle, in the NRL that's simply not enough - plus the Warriors are far from dominating.
Hopefully he'll continue to learn and get better and grow the confidence to back himself and take on the defences more - I'm not sure his strengths will be enough though - to be a top fullback in the NRL, you need to be much more than just a decent runner.
In defence, he's a mile away from being even average - he needs to start putting his body on the line, at least he'd get some respect for making the effort, at times he's looked as though he's scared to tackle some of the big boys.
Also, where's his attitude gone? He was a bit abrasive in SL, and was happy to dish out verbals and niggle - he looks intimidated in the NRL.
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| Quote ="Wigg'n"About the only sane post in this thread. sgtwilko is an embarrassing Leeds muppet.'"
Ah insults, nice going. Totally what i woul expect from you. I also follow the tigers after being a resident. Feel free to blame my opinion on being a Leeds fan but you are wrong, that's you with Wigan blinkers on. I want all UK player to do really well out here. Especially Tomkins as he's a back. Our forwards are some of the best out here. I love watching Graham. Tomkins is full of errors. He's been found out and that is what happens in the NRL. I've not said he won't make it. I've said if he doesn't get a lot better in the next 12 months I recon he will be punted. He has a reputation for doing a bad thing for every good thing. When players like Boyd and Barba who are both having shocking seasons are safer options than you, you have a problem.
What might be best for Tomkins is to sack off England for a year, have a proper rest and a full pre seasons with the Warriors to have a real go. But I can't see it happening.
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| Already in discussions with koucash
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| Quote ="Jake the Peg"Already in discussions with koucash'"
so sam could generate Wigan more than a million quid. They might talk but if comes back to super league its to Wigan at a set salary.
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| Tomkins was always a mixed bag, had some great touches going forward, was never a superstar in defence.
What is happening is what was always going to happen. Did anyone really think he would make the step up without problem?
Tomkins was massively over-rated by some over here. He is a very good player, some looked at him as the best player in generations and the finished article. Maybe they will need to look again at that.
However,m Tomkins is more than capable of being a top NRL fullback. He isnt on the level of GI (nobody is, he truly is a generational player) or Slater. He is capable of being as good as Hayne, Barba etc. He does need to improve, but we are told time and time again thats why our best need to go to Australia. It doesnt make sense that he was both the finished article and needing to go to Aus to improve.
Tomkins has had good and bad games, he has looked out of place and right at home. Thats what you would expect from a player making a step up in quality. A month or so ago the papers in NZ were talking about how they were seeing the player that Tomkins promised to be.
Lets see where he is at the end of his 2nd season.
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"Tomkins was always a mixed bag, had some great touches going forward, was never a superstar in defence.
What is happening is what was always going to happen. Did anyone really think he would make the step up without problem?
Tomkins was massively over-rated by some over here. He is a very good player, some looked at him as the best player in generations and the finished article. Maybe they will need to look again at that.
However,m Tomkins is more than capable of being a top NRL fullback. He isnt on the level of GI (nobody is, he truly is a generational player) or Slater. He is capable of being as good as Hayne, Barba etc. He does need to improve, but we are told time and time again thats why our best need to go to Australia. It doesnt make sense that he was both the finished article and needing to go to Aus to improve.
Tomkins has had good and bad games, he has looked out of place and right at home. Thats what you would expect from a player making a step up in quality. A month or so ago the papers in NZ were talking about how they were seeing the player that Tomkins promised to be.
Lets see where he is at the end of his 2nd season.'"
He is a long way from being as good as Hayne,
Hayne would be the best outside back in the NRL by some margin.
He has consistently been the best player in SOO for NSW over many years.
His versatility has worked against him over the years where he has been a Winger. Stand Off, Centre and Fullback.
He was easily the best player in last years World Cup, especially at Centre.
I think Tomkins looked good in England and has some pace and broken play running, that is not uncommon in the NRL.
The defensive structures are much tighter than SL and teams are Coached to a higher standard where teams counter a players style better than what happens in SL
His defense has never been that good and he has gone to a team that was probably not suited to him.
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