I honestly think Australia probably would have won today, even without the dodgy calls.

What i'd like to know is, do you Aussies think the game is corrupt, and would you not have preffered it if England were allowed to give you a fight, after all it was looking like a cracking game until the ref got involved.

Good that you're calming down a bit.

No, I don't think the game is corrupt. England suffered dodgy calls today, but I put it down to a pretty regular occurance of human error. Refs can go into games with a natural opinion of who's likely to win, and it simply affects their judgement. This is often compounded in favour of home teams. It's then exaggerated when fans of losing teams apply their own natural bias.

I know what it's like to cop it, my club hasn't been viewed as a serious threat for most of 15 years now, i'm positive we've come off worse with refs over this time because of that view. I definitely don't think it's a conspiracy against us, that'd be a cop out.

I've not calmed down mate. This isn't like when Adrian Morley got sent off and I went mad, that day I got home and realised I was in the wrong and the ref was bang on. Today proved for me that the international game is bent.

It is certainly fairly regular when an Australian ref takes charge of an Australia v England game.

It's just human error.

........that happens alot

...........and in australias favour


..........against england


.........when an aus referees the game.

That guy I assume is the best the NRL have to offer (as he is the Australian Ref for the 4 nations)...what a joke. Mind you England didn't help themselves, as I've said in previous posts we just can't mentally focus for a full game. I still claim it goes back to the coaching happening in England...we just don't have good enough coaches...simple as that. People can defend the coaching in England as much as they like...but it is clear after 40 years of hurt that it isn't good enough.

The referee today was appalling....there is no reason that a NZ referee shouldn't have officiated today. No reason at all. The Aussies moan that referees aren't good enough unless they are from the NRL and officiate the game how they think it should be done (although the rules and game comes from England - odd that hey?!)

Still, the Aussies were the best today at playing the conditions, keeping their composure and understanding their home referee. Fair play.

At least the final will be competitive!

ps.. how many times when a penalty is given throughout the game does a referee stop the match and call the captain over to ask if they want to tap or kick for goal?? I'm still baffled how Cameron Smith can tap start the game (as normal) and then be able to select a shot at goal??

England need to readjust their mentality going forward (although I do feel like I'm banging my head against a wall) and improve the coaching standards. Mind you, all they can do is try and educate the players - if you listen to the team talk they sound at best stupid. No wonder they forget game plans and fail....catching a ball is the first part of the game boys.

I'm not sure the Australasia Select XIII were keeping composure when we were getting on top and they were spear tackling, holding down and grapple tackling. They kept composure once the ref had won them the game.

I wish Graham had continued his run and cleaned Smith out then explained politely to the referee that he had in fact tapped the ball with his foot and therefore, in accordance with the rules, restarted the game

Would have made my year

I've watched the game three times already, once as a spectator, once from a critical point of view looking at the referee and a second time trying look at the referee from an Australian perspective.

I'm not going to suggest that England should have or would have won this game had they received a fair crack of the whip from the officials but equally it would be naive to think that referees don't influence the results of games by making crucial decisions at certain times of the game and in certain parts of the pitch.

Looking at statistics will not tell you even half the story, a referee is aware of the penalty count at half-time and can adjust his performance to try and level the statistics in order to deflect criticism.

I'd like to believe that Tony Archer had one bad game but unfortunately I've seen his refereeing performances against England and Great Britain and it's not just one bad game. With that in mind I'd like to believe that Tony Archer is a poor referee but the fact that he gets this gig suggests he is the best that the Australian game can offer. The only alternative view is that he is bent or completely incompetent and that purely by chance Australia have benefited from his incompetence every time he's been a referee during their games

Here's some facts and figures from the game, I'll point out that I have watched the game and made these notes whilst trying to be as objective as possible. I've only listed the blatantly obvious incidents and have left the everyday matter of fact errors of judgement by officials and players alone.

2nd minute: Gallen moves off the mark but the referee gives a penalty against Ben Westwood
4th minute: contentious one, Tate knocks on under pressure Tony Archer calls for a penalty try, video gives a penalty which I can live with
5th minute: Luke Lewis scores a try from the pressuer created by Tony Archers decision against Ben Westwood
16th minute: Nate Myles rakes the ball out in at a two-on-one tackle with Thaiday while tackling Darrell Goulding Tony Archer gives a knock-on where it should have been a penalty to England.
18th minute: From the resulting scrum Luke Lewis scores for Australia, this follows a blatant knock-on by Cooper Cronk which Tony Archer and the video ref both miss
21st minute: Earl Crabtree takes his first drive and David Shillington clearly has hold of his ponytail while making the tackle which results in a sloppy play the ball and James Roby knocks on. Should have been a penalty to England instead Australia gets a scrum.
22nd minute: From the scrum Billy Slater scores a try the replay shows a double knock-on first from Tom Briscoe then from Brent Tate before Billy Slater touches down.
26th minute: Sam Tomkins is clearly tripped by Tom Learoyd Lahrs which happens right in front of Tony Archer but no penalty!
27th minute: When England should be attacking from a penalty Australia now have possession and from this set of six Brent Tate scores a contentious try which the replays show the possibility of a right ankle being on the touchline and the probability that he bounced the ball.
29th minute: Tony Archer pulls an offside penalty from nowhere and England are again under pressure, the offside is no different than 90% of all the play the balls during a game
30th minute: following the penalty and during the resulting set of six Willie Tonga scores a try
35th minute: Tom Briscoe puts Leroy Cudjoe through a gap from a pass which is flat at worst, Cudjoe is in the clear and could potentially score but Tony Archer pulls them back for a forward pass

Half Time: the damage is done and Tony Archer can go back to the dressing room and assess what he needs to do in order to avoid questions about his impartiality.

46th minute: Australia score a try from a Luke Lewis pass to Cooper Cronk which is 2.5 m forward. Tony Archer and his officials failed to see it yet Tony Archer's last major involvement in the game was to halt an England move which could have resulted in a try for a forward pass that wasn't.
48th minute:Tom Learoyd Lahrs clearly knocks on at the play the ball but Tony Archer sees a penalty to Australia
51st minute: David Shillington clearly impedes Shaun Lunt from an offside position but Tony Archer waves play on
57th minute: England under pressure having conceded two drop outs, from the second Nate Myles clearly knocks on at the play the ball but Tony Archer waves play on and England remain under pressure in defence
58 minute: having withstood the pressure Sam Burgess has the ball raked out by Paul Gallen in a three on one tackle Tony Archer gives Australia a scrum instead of an England penalty
59th minute: Pantomime time, Cameron Smith clearly taps the ball which is obviously against the wishes of Darren Lockyer and Tony Archer allows them to change their mind. Worse than that he then lectures James Graham for having the audacity as England captain to question what just happened.
65th minute: Another two on one strip this time on Joel Tomkins by Nate Myles and Anthony Watmough, should have been another England penalty yet Tony Archer gives Australian the scrum
70th minute: another contentious one, Shaun Lunt seems to have scored a try, the video ref passes it back to Tony Archer who instantly says no try.

if that was the case, why the wasn't he stood on the mark with his arm out waiting for an instruction, in stead of standing in the defensive line waiting for the roos to tap and re start.

just on the 59th minute, Graham should have absolutely monstered him. Smith took the tap, ball is in play, its hammer time!

England were refereed out of the game.

What was witnessed this morning was an absolute disgrace.

what will we do?

bend over and take it.

Its a real shame, because it could have turned into a really cracking and close game.

Yes I still think the Aussies would have won but it should have been much closer and would have been a much better spectacle.

we probably wouldn't have won, but the ref and the video ref made sure just in case. I hope Archer and clark can look in the mirror and feel good about themselves, but seeing as how they've sealed their international futures they probably can. Disgraceful.

Don't say that, you might upset people like I did!



Post of the year for me!

Earlier you had said that England/GB have won nothing for 40 years because the refs are against you, to saying in this thread that you think England probably would've lost yesterday anyway. I took that as a sign of calming down a bit.






Now do one for England.

Wheres Baz and his Aussie defense???? hmmm...guessing he can't really - even Baz would have trouble justifying that referee performance...can see why they've brought 2 refs in the NRL...bring them up to the right standard!

Aussie here present and accounted for, and was thoroughly disgusted in Archer's performance.

Perhaps you didn't. I could've sworn it was in the first post of one of the threads you made during or just after the game. I thought you were using your emotion to have a bit of a troll, but I can't find it so I guess I was wrong. Bit weird that the poster "kobashi" seems to reference you saying it as well though. I can accept I was wrong, but both of us thinking we saw it is a little odd.

i thought the refereeing was atrocious and was quite embarrassed to be honest. i dont buy into the whole australian referee's being biased and continually giving australia the 50 50 calls instead of england, but gee its hard to argue against it. i think australia would still have won, but the contest was taken out of it way too early. it was a great opening to the game, i think england were up for it but their outside backs are very ordinary and i dont think they are aggressive enough, they really should have stuck it to the aussies more. also, graham and crabtree should have nailed smith, he tapped the ball, end of story. you guys have a lot of work to do and the injuries havnt helped, but i can understand the frustration at us.

My point has been we didn't get a fair crack at the game. I don't sulk when we get murdered by Australia, the 25 minutes that you tore us to shreds at Elland Road is possibly the best Rugby League i've ever seen in my life live.

It's good to see some Aussies who are honest and humble enough to admit the ref was awful. I think the two things everyone can agree on is that the game would have been much better without the ropey ref, and the roof at Eden Park doesn't work.

i watched on the internet, so the coverage wasnt so good , but that ingoal decision by clarke was a shocker , i could see the ball change to a a downward direction after the fingers touched it

, how in hell didn,t he

that last pass try by the aussies , archer was in direct line with it and so was the touch judge , mile forward

the try by you guys when it was a short and called play the ball by archer. Where his elbow was, the ball must have touched the line at least !. why wasnt that benefit of the doubt to the attaking team .


i have seen Archer ref loads of times in the NRL and he has never made so many errors like that



shame for the game


Cheers
Dave

England weren't good enough to win the match, however I don't agree with the any ref reffing a game in which his home team is playing in, whether it's an Aussie or English ref reffing Aus Vs Eng, or a bloke from Bradford or Leeds reffing Leeds Vs Brad. (I don't actually know if there are any refs from leeds or bradford , it's just an example).

It's a conflict of interest, and shouldn't be allowed to happen at a professional level. It just raises questions of bias.


Edit: Also, according to this week's DD, the handing the decision back to the match ref by the video ref isn't a part of the international rules. What do people think about that?

I heard someone say that before. It's yet another error by Archer, but one that will be put down to habit I imagine.