1 - Tomkins 3/10 poor. No involvement in attack, no defensive qualities at all. Has potential.
2 - Goulding 2/10. Simply not good enough at this level, offers nothing. Shocking selection over Ryan Hall.
3 - Cudjoe 3/10. Defensively naive but playing out of position. Should have been on wing.
4 - Atkins 1/10. Two of the worst international performances ever. NEVER AGAIN!
5 - Briscoe 3/10. Has potential like Tomkins, but too soon. Made too many errors.
6 - O'Loughlin 5/10. No half back, decent effort however.
7 - Robinson 7/10. Plenty of mistakes but one to show his hand and try something at least.
8 - Graham 6/10. Good effort again but in a limp pack.
9 - Roby 4/10. Too many errors, no real injection from dummy half.
10 - Burgess 3/10. Shocking until it was too late.
11 - Tomkins 1/10. WAY too early for him. In another year he MIGHT be up to this level.
12 - Ellis 3/10. Playing the NRL has done nothing for him.
13 - Westwood 8/10. Can hold his head up, one of very few over the two games.

14 - Lunt 5/10. Reasonable and has potential but debateable if he's up to this level.
15 - Crabtree 6/10. Good effort but needs to have more impact if used from the bench.
16 - Fielden 3/10. Shocking to call him up. Soft, limp, beaten.
17 - Harrison 5/10. Another with potential that is not yet ready.

Of the list I'd only want to keep S Tomkins, Cudjoe, Briscoe, Frodo (Not at 6) Graham, Roby, Burgess and Westwood.

Another year, another abstract failure. Australia didn't put 100% effort into that. They proved in the first half they could score whenever they wanted to. I'd love to see a situation where Australia have to score a set number of points, so we can see where we truly are against them. The refereeing didn't help but we're massively behind still.

MOM - Tony Archer

You've been a bit harsh on Roby there haven't you. Tackled his heart out first half. One bad mistake / fumble with the ball.

You are just as clueless as Stevo. It makes me cringe when people claim there is no "injection" from dummy half or the dummy half isnt making many runs, except you can only do this when the forwards get a roll on and the defensive line isnt set. What is the point in running from dummy half against a set defensive line? May aswell give it a forward.

Look at our second set of the game.

It's not all about running from dummy half. A quality performance from a hooker would involve passes which maximise the impact for the forwards and direct the side. He was just picking it up and lazily dumping it on to the next forward. Unimaginative and going through the motions.

1 - Tomkins 4/10
2 - Goulding 2/10.
3 - Cudjoe 3/10.
4 - Atkins 1/10.
5 - Briscoe 3/10.
6 - O'Loughlin 6/10.
7 - Robinson 8/10.
8 - Graham 7/10.
9 - Roby 6/10.
10 - Burgess 5/10.
11 - Tomkins 5/10.
12 - Ellis 5/10.
13 - Westwood 9/10.

14 - Lunt 7/10.
15 - Crabtree 6/10.
16 - Fielden 5/10.
17 - Harrison 5/10

Did you miss his pass for our first try? If that was KC youd be ejaculating all over the forums. As for his passing, its the forwards job to get in the position. If he only has one runner to aim for, which is all he ever had, wtf is he supposed to do?

Exactly. The inability to distinguish between cause and symptom amongst pundits astonishes me at times.


Were you making a cup of tea when he put Burgess in then? One error aside, Roby was excellent in the first half. Titanic defence, and in direct contrast to your appraisal, was bringing the forwards on to the ball very effectively. He was our best, along with Westwood.

How can people give Cudjoe a better rating than any player when he was at fault for more tries than anyone?

1.Sam Tomkins. 4 (poor showing from boy wonder)
2 Goulding. 5 ( solid, nothing more)
3 Cudjoe. 5 ( shot out of the line for Aus 1st try)
4 Atkins 3 ( looked out of his depth again)
5 Briscoe 4 ( gifted aus a try with a poor take)
6 O'Loughlin 4 ( offered nothing in attack, was solid in defence)
7 Robinson 6 ( well taken try, did ok)
8 Burgess 6 ( another try v the aussies, couple of unforced errors)
9 Roby 6 ( needs to run more from dummy half for me, solid tho)
10 Graham 7 ( Same old Graham, never has a bad game)
11 Ellis 6 ( solid as per usual)
12 J Tomkins 3 ( was he playing? )
13 Westwood 7 ( Tackled everything that moved, still gives silly penalties away tho)

14 Fielden 6 ( went well, made good yards when he came on)
15 Crabtree 6 ( didn't make much impact)
16 Harrison 6 ( not much game time )
17 Lunt 6 ( looked bright when he came on)

merge with saddends thread

This is saddened we are talking about.

Sorry, but how on earth can you give Roby 6 and then Fielden 7 - Roby was superb in a losing side

I think he needs to run more from dummy half, meant to put 6 for Fielden, my mistake.

Our style of game doesn't change at all and we play the same old predictable stuff. Try to get over the advantage line with 3 or 4 one man drives, try to achieve a decent kick and apply preassure to force a mistake. Where as the Aussies, as do the kiwis just concerntrate on there own games and throw the ball about.

The aussies proved today that even if its Raining you can still play some good Rugby. Ok decisions went against us but the ease they was gaining metres on the fringes was frightening. When they make a break every player knows were to be and what lines to run were as we just throw the ball about and hope it ends up to somebody fast in space.

We just respect them too much, hence why we went for goal at 6-6.

Didn't realise Fielden was playing until about the 68th minute.

Cudjoe was horrific, as bad as Atkins if not worse.

I agree. Cased on the last 2 games Fielden probably wont get selected again after this 4 nations, he had his chance again this year and hasnt really took it.

Cudjoe and Atkins were just awful, Atkins for the 2nd game in a row. They just dont have the defensive game, awareness or ball handling skills to be centres.

You sound like Saddened and Stevo, ergo, someone who doesnt have a clue about hooker play and thinks the best hookers are those that make the most runs from dummy half.

Question for you, what is the point of a 12 stone player, running from dummy half at a set defensive line, when its better to give it to a forward who is hitting the gain line at speed? Answers on a post card to Stevo and Saddened.

Joke rating for Joel Tomkins. He was average but did little wrong and got through plenty of work.

I'd rate them-

S Tomkins- 5- He was targeted and had no room to move in.
Goulding-5- A decent superleague player but not upto this level
Cudjoe-4- He really struggled in the first half and looked very nervous
Atkins-3- He had an appaling game. His defence is terrible and he's dumb with the ball
Briscoe-5- He tries hard and will continue to improve- Awful attempt to defuse the first half bomb
O'Loughlin-5- Never a stand off and when he started to play his natural game in the 2nd half looked miles better
Robinson-7- Tries his heart out and caused problems
Burgess-6- Caused problems for the Aussies but too many errors as usual
Roby-7- Big stint in defence and tested them out of dummy half at times but a couple of daft errors
Graham-7- He always gives it his all and showed his ball skills
Ellis-6- Didn't stand out but worked hard
Westwood-8- Our mom for me. He has come on leaps and bounds as a player
J Tomkins-6- Same as Ellis.

subs
Crabtree-5- Did very little
Fielden-6- Thought he had a good 2nd half spell
Harrison-5- Didn't seem to get much chance to make an impact.
Lunt-6- I thought he gave it a real crack and should have been awarded a benefit of the doubt try.

So the best hookers arn't the ones who make good yards and breaks? John Thursfield must have been the best hooker of his era then.

Sorry, but some of these are absolute rubbish!
Goulding didn't put a foot wrong and had an absolute muppet playing inside him.
Cudjoe was as bad as Atkins - his hesitancy allowed them to stroll right through.
Roby was probably our best player. In defence he was great, set up our try and made some decent yards. At least a 7.
SOL was poor at 6, not decent.
And Ellis, 3 out of 10? Not sure what's more of a joke, your score for him, or your quote after it...

Not going to rate the whole team cannot be bothered but just a few stats for people to reflect on and look at them without club bias.

--------------Runs (m)----T.Brks---Tackles--Missed tackles-Offloads--Errors---Pen Conc.
12. Joel Tomkins -- 7 (42m)--1 ------27 ----------2-----------1 --------0-------0-----
13. Ben Westwood 7 (42m) --1 ------33 ----------4-----------2---------1-------2

Why have you selected them 2- are you upset that your precious Wigan 12 has been found not to be int standard

Well, I'm from Wigan - am I allowed to comment?

Apart from the penalties conceded, Westwood was miles better than Joel Tomkins, much stronger going forward and punishing defence. Tomkins work rate was OK but little impact