see timesonline.typepad.com/rugby_le ... .html#more

see timesonline.typepad.com/rugby_le ... .html#more

What an alamirst headline - anyone with a brain knows that our crowds need to improve and has known for a while.

Correct Paddock.

quins to fail

the RFL to grant a new london license to a lower level soccer like and be more succesful ala wrexham

Which lower level soccer club would that be?

you think im richard lewis

loftus road got a lot of praise from the RL teams that tried it

use google and find out which team plays there, thats one suggestion

Fulham

QPRRL ?

No, i think you are the person who suggested a "lower" soccer club would take over another teams licence. I know of most football teams in London - but which one is it you are talking about? Do you think the people who own QPR are interested in buying a RL club? Do you know who owns QPR?

I think it desperate times for Quins.

in the past the crowds have been poor...but crucially there has been that loyal band of 3,000 or so fans willing to back the club.

in recent times this 3,000 seem to be growing increasingly restless, and if just a few hundred of those stop spending then its a crisis.

on the field having seen them at the KC last week they look like a bottom 2 side, the whole team is of average size and ability, and the rugby managed to be even more dull than what Hull served up in 2009.

overall I just think London is too big of an area for RL to crack. Wrexham is working (although its very early days) because there is little going on in Wrexham and the crusaders can get coverage almost by default. Quins could go a whole season unbeaten and win the CC and the grand final and still people in Twickenham woulden't know they exist.

I wonder if moving Quins to a smaller southern town such as Milton Keynes (new ground, 3rd division football club with only 5 or so years history) work? I think it is worth a try.

would Crystal Palace be open to a ground share, they need cash as they are in administration, and have ground shared with Wimbledon before. I know that moving again in London isn't great for the progress of London/Quins, but it would be a shame to abandon the club completely just as young London born talent is breaking through.

It wouldnt be about a ground share though - they would have to take over the team if the licence for Harlequins was taken away. There obviously isnt a massive demand for RL in London at a professional level, the RFL have to decide how important a team in London is. If its deemed vital - then they should look at putting funds in themself - take a cut of other teams TV money.

i think the Harlequins name hasn't helped them personally because people know Harlequins as a rugby union side and therefore when told there is also a rugby league team called Harlequins they laugh it off as a gimmick.
I think the club would be better served reverting back to a 'London' name.
London is one of the most known cities in the world and everyone has heard of London.

This aimed at the Quins RL fans.
How much of an effect has the name 'Harlequins' had? Has it led to a loss of fans/spectators who follow a union team other than Quins RU?
If Harlequins RL did go into the Championship would it enable them to build a strong academy, give the younger lads first team action and allow the fans to see a winning, competitive team?

If they have to go down, bring Paris and an Aude team in the Championship, add the South Wales Scorpions. Call this the "European Super League division 2" and reintroduce P&R. The additional money from French TV will cover the increase in transport costs.

And what would happen to the current Championship 1?

Well it becomes the "National Championship". The two best teams go in play offs against the two best teams of the French Championship to gain access to the ESL2 (under the condition that the French federation is able to cover any additional transport cost from potential additional French inclusion with TV money).

I was listening till then

Where did it go wrong?

Seriously, it is the kind of set up seriously discussed in football when the idea of an ESL resurface. What is wrong with it in RL?

Im actually coming round to the belief that Quins decline on the field is down in part to the lack of relegation.

I think the people running the club know that the RFL would be very reluctant to demote them, due to the effect this would have on Sky TV money, and also the RL's attempts to garner more national media coverage.

By being in such a seemingly impregnable franchise position, they know they can get away with doing very little.

In the past the owners knew they had to spend money on a playing squad otherwise it would be curtains for the club.

Im also purturbed by the fact Quins no longer appear to have any form of merchandise operation.

It appears to me that we have a situation were a full time professional league has a London based club that is operating as a professional entity in name only. In reality its running as a semi pro outfit.

Sadly its a chicken an egg scenario. The Quins wont get new fans without going out and promoting the game, but the club cant promote the game because they dont have enough fans to generate the income to drive growth.
I think Salford are in very much the same boat.

I want to see the game succeed at the professional level in London, however i think the present setup isnt working.
Yes we need to be patient, but at the same time we shouldnt be complacent and turn a blind eye.

There is a real danger i think of Quins turning into a "traditional" RL club eg a parasite that does nothing to grow the game, but spends year after year getting the begging bowl out asking to be saved.

Doubt the ground or name are the key issues. Key issue is we are a foreign sport in a capital city with a million and one other things to do on a weekend. Either move them to a smaller Southern city or help them out with a marketing team and budget to let London know they exist.

I'm surprised it has taken people so long to get on to this, it was obvious we were going to struggle.

The location, the colours and the name are all a complete irrelevance to our real problems. The idea Twickenham is difficult to get to is a myth. The idea people would be more willing to follow a team called London is a myth. The idea we'd be better off in Milton Keyes or some other area on the periphery of the City is also a myth.

What are our real problems?
[1 Lack of organisation/good management amongst the back room staff (this is a huge one and explains almost all our failings from sponsorship, communication with new and existing fans, attendances and local awareness). We do have some sponsors now at least, but I haven't seen much evidence of the other areas being addressed yet. We didn't have a CEO for the best part of a year.

[2 Lacking a competitive team who put in competitive performances. Four home wins last year. Last in the play offs in 2005 on a Friday night in Bradford, last in a cup final in 1999. These are fading memories. As Harlequins our "best" finish has been 9th and a Challenge Cup Quarter Final on a Friday night in Wigan. It's obviously not enough on its own to have a competitive team (and I'm not saying we need to win the Super League), but a few home play off games or cup quarter finals might help.

[3 One major investor (David Hughes) having to foot the bill for everything.

The club needed good management when we became Harlequins, we didn't get it. To be fair we've never had it. What we have had at various points in the past (although not necessarily at the same time) is a competitive team on the field and more open communication existing fans.

Why not change the entire structure of the organisation and allow it to travel throughout London with a training base at one facility.

Then change the name so there is NO ambiguity as to what the team is say London Super League Rugby Club (LSLRC)

They then can probably obtain interest of ALL London without being defined to one area.

It may not work in other areas but South Wales Scorpions, Catalans Dragons etc possibly point the way.

Just a thought.

Hmmmm.... Quins Park Rangers then?