No where.

We tried our hardest and lost by 30 points on home soil. Next year in the heat and dry pitches we'll struggle to win a game.

No one wants to coach us, smith has abandoned us, no one in super league is good enough who would take the job and no one in the nrl will take it.

Our outside backs are ordinary at best and our pack runs out of puff on the 30 minute mark of each half.

I feel loike we're never ever going to beat the aussies and would rather just have super league than having to go through this pointless precession at the end of each season where we get slagged off and patronised by the aussies.

oh shut up you big tart...

We matched them, arguably bettered them, until about 15 minutes into the second half. Shentons pole-axing gave them a breather when we had them on the back foot - the rest is history, but was an awesome display of RL played using brains and athleticism instead of brute strength and ignorance!!

I just wonder if RL in England is falling into the same trap as soccer, and is coaching individual flair out of the game. I know that watching a view of the academy games last season the rugby was a LOT more open and entertaining.

I think for the 1st time in many years there were a hell of a lot of positives to take out of , by the scoreline only, a battering by the Aussies - a young , vibrant, fairly inexperienced England side matched them for 60 minutes - the future is very bright once this squad get more big match experience under their belts

Yet another thread ..........................

Read my sig.

I thought we'd lost it just before that, they marched up the field in one set of six, they turned it on and scored at will, if we'd stopped them on that set then we may have been in with a shout.

Take your blinkers off. Slater and Inglis will be around for years. Jennings will be a far more potent attacking threat than Hodges. Hayne could play anywhere from 1-6 - and in a lot of games this year has looked the best fullback in the NRL. And so it goes on......

SL does not produce enough quality players. Those we do have NEVER face the kind of attack Australia have because SL does not have enough quality players.

We need a whole bunch more young outside backs, somehow get ourseleves some attacking fullback options, and develop some genuine halfbacks who don't need a loose forward to do their kicking, organising or passing. We also need some real smart hookers who can do things at speed.

As I see it, long term development of players is the only solution. Short term I can see options that would strengthen our side immediately but would be hugely unpopular - find English qualified NRL players. I'll also make a bet that Tomkins and Estmond never develop much at all from where they are now if they stay in SL. We'll be having the whole Danny McGuire discussion about them in 3/4 years. We need as many young players as possible playing in the NRL.

We either have to genuinely as a whole sport, back moves to improve the standard of SL - including really getting rid of overseas crocks and all clubs focusing on junior development - or accept the fact that whilst we as fans care who wins, it will never be as good as the NRL. If you take the second route then sending players to Aus is the only option.

For me I would not allow any more than two overseas players per team & they would have to fullfill tight criteria to get into a club. that would free up money to keep more youngsters in the game I dont care if the standard drops at first we just have to keep faith with what we have & realise that it will be a long slow process. Integral to that we must encourage the modest succsess in Wales,London,France & the spread of the amature game in the south & universitys, it also means more support for the national leagues as if we are to expand the bigger the starting base the better. I am not pessamistic I know it hurts to get beat but give them credit they have some very special players. It remains to be seen how the young players on the pitch yesterday develop but more important we have to keep the supply small as it is comming. One good point they were not as dire & boring in defeat as the union side in victory.

I find the money side of things interesting. I'd bet Greg Inglis with five young English lads would make most SL sides better than 6 average Aussies in their respective roles. We very rarely sign class Australian backs at their peak. Lyon was the only recent exception, and everyone wet themselves about how good he was, yet he's behind Hodges, Jennings and Inglis for Australia.

The ‘gap’ is getting bigger and I can’t see it shortening whilst the NRL is so far ahead of SL. They are switched on for 80 minutes every game, we can manage 60 at best. Mentally, thanks to the intensity week after week in the NRL (not to mention SOO), they are immense. Unfortunately people watch the WCC games and seriously think our game is as strong as theirs, get real, SL is light years behind the NRL and it won’t change unless we admit to it.

Pffffffffff!

And Shenton poleaxed himself.

Stop trying to expand the number of teams and diluting the quality there by reducing the weekly intensity.

Reduce the number of imports and increase the quality

FORCE clubs to spend a min amount of the Sky money on Jnr development

Accept that Australia has more money and more players and therefore will always be better! We might catch them and win the odd game ala NZ but reality is they have so much money pumping into the game we are never EVER going to better them consistently. It's harsh but reality i'm afriad.

I wish people would stop whinging. There are NO negatives here. Australia are a class act and they beat our kids - not only only that, it only happened in the last 15 minutes.

There are many, many, many positives to take out of this series.

- We have two very young halfbacks who should hopefully be the backbone of our England side for many years to come. Eastmond in particular looked very exciting, and both caused no end of problems.

- Our forwards punched holes in the Aussies and the New Zealanders for large periods. Sam Burgess is unbelievably agile for a man his size. I was astounded by the metres our forwards were making on Saturday - I don't think I've ever seen as good a performand from England/GB.

- The young lads WANTED it. Peter Fox's reaction to his tries against both Aus and NZ showed a man who wanted to play for his country.

- A fact many seem to have overlooked on these boards is that England kept Australia pointless for FIFTY minutes in Wigan. That's no mean feat for anyone, never mind a bunch of kids plus Morley and Peacock.

- We beat, convincingly too, the World Champions. Even if you take that with a pinch of salt, remember that NZ have never been pushovers due to most of them playing in the NRL week in, week out, and our track record against them has been patchy so say the least.

So, Peacock and Morley will be packing in soon. So? We've more than enough big forwards to bring in as replacements. Our lads proved that. having them present was beneficial to the team as a whole, for sure, but their individual performances were outshone by Graham (great going forward, but needs to stop pretending to be a halfback) and Big Eorl, who I thought was outstandingly good. Burgess is a monster.

On the other hand, I still say the Australian forwards aren't that special. It says something to you when they pick a short like Hannon, and an old man like Civoniceva. Lockyer can't go on forever, Slater for his flashes of brilliance still makes mistakes, and whilst yuo would rightly say that we would struggle to match Inglis on a 'man on man/individual quality' basis, he is still only ONE man, who still requires the right service from his halfbacks.

So, stop your moaning, and get excited for the future. I know I am.

a game like Inglis and co.

Top post Robinson.

In amongst all the b0110cks written about the game that is the best summary of what happened.

We got a solution? probably not or not an instant fix but here are a few of my views...

If you are building a team for a world cup then the last thing you need is a high profile tournament three years out, there was far tool much pressure on the team to make amends for a shocking world cup rather land looking to set good foundations. We will go out to Oz next year with the same attitude and it will repeat on an on.

We need to make the Four Nations once every two years at most, one of the other years would be the world cup the other a tour or a home nations deal.

That gives a coach a set plan, year one a home nations championship to blood all your young hopefuls with lower pressure on them to perform against the real starts of our game, year two a four nations to see just where you are in comparison to the rest, year three a tour to gets some real intensity and a team spirit, year four a world cup.

Aye

Lets face it, our players play in far too few 'intense' games. We've tried playing the Franch, home nations, yorks v lancs, but these just don't cut it.

So, IMO, the RFL would be better helping provide a consistent challenge for the youngsters who are coming through. Something like a championship against NRL sides each season, maybe our top 4 v their top 4. (I know they tried something like it in the 90's, but SL had only just gone pro then).

I agree this is the only way of getting more 'intense' games, but would the Aussies really go for it?

I thought we played better versus the Kiwis and we're not a million miles away. For 60mins Engalnd looked pretty good.

We can debate forever about what we need to do to improve but the big thing is to get more kids playing the game so we have more players to choose from. Only then will we get over the handicap of being the second or third tier football code in this country. If Australia had to compete with football and rugby union on the same levels as us I'd suggest that we'd murder them in international competition.

Until we can get the numbers up we need to do other things to maximise our potential, and to be fair we've started down that road.

Overseas quotas have been reduced. This should be down to five next year. Hopefully the RFL will eventually close the loopholes some clubs are using to bring more foreigners over. When a club like Leeds with their excellent junior system feels it has to have seven overseas players in 2010 something is wrong.

Rule changes will eventually have a positive effect if we stick with them. The slower PTB will eventually lead to players becoming more skilful as we move away from dummy half scooting. We also need to reduce the number of subs allowed so that players get used to playing for longer and are put under more pressure. That'll build up their endurance and coaches will have to work harder instead of relying on the bench to cover their backsides.

If we could come up with other changes to encourage flair then lets do it. The NRL makes rule changes without recourse to us and they generally serve to improve the players over there. They're already ahead of us in many respects so lets be proactive for a change and set the agenda.

Exactly how a lot of the SL clubs looked back in the 90's when we played SL v NRL. I can't remember, but didn't only 2 SL sides actually get a win each?

BUT, to be fair, I think some of the England players lost concentration during the long time it took to handle Shenton's injury. Unfortunately the Aussies remained more focussed and also gained their breath.

Get the kids playign in summer too when the conditions are more suited to the more skillful aspects of the game.

That's closer to the real issue, and Bullseye alluded to it too.

You can whinge all you like about coaches, selection and tactics but the UK simply does not produce young players of the standard that the Australian junior system does.

By the time young players make it into the pro ranks, coaches shouldn't have to be teaching them basic skills like passing accurately on the move. For whatever reason however, they are having to. Watch games in the Foundation Academy (or whatever the Under 16 level is called these days), there are kids sadly lacking in basics who have probably been regarded as stars in their amateur age groups.

Now that is an absolute essential. Get RL out of the cold and wet, and get the kids involved in conditions when they want to be outside.

Also, a huge push in schools. Organise league competitions for schools so that all the teams have to do is turn up, and you'd see a sudden increase in school playing numbers.

There are things we can do, but they require time and money.