Looking at the SL clubs, how many seem to have dropped alarmingly in quality over the last 2-3 years?

Hull, Bradford, Wigan, Warrington, Catalans have some class players but are producing absolute garbage on the pitch at the moment.

Celtic, Salford (until recently) have been expectedly below standard.

Saints are dominating as expected, and Leeds have been until a recent blip in form.

Cas, Rovers, Quins, Hudds and Wakey are improving which is good I suppose, but they are still far off the top, and still aren't much better than the other mid-table sides.

I'm pretty disappointed so far at the lack of quality SL games I've seen so far. I don't particularly think it's to do with the player pool being stretched. Rather the coaching these guys are receiving. There are some class players in these teams that are struggling and they just aren't performing. Cas, Rovers, Quins, Hudds and Wakey are getting some decent stuff out of teams that are on paper not looking like world beaters.

We're never gonna compete with the Aussies if half the league are being poorly coached and producing crap on the pitch. What is wrong with the coaching set-ups in this country and what can be done to improve the situation?

its all down to poor recruitment

Hull, Bradford, Warrington and Wigan have been SL's worst at not replacing quality players and bringing in overrated and overpaid tat, and thats why we find ourselves in the bottom half IMO

the other teams improvement has been via good recruitment but crucially scrapping the 50% of turnover rule and letting everyone spend full cap.

Look at the quality of some of the Coaches.
They are either has beens, NRL cast off's / under achievers, or inexperienced at top level.
What's Agars claim to fame?
Walters is ex feeder club coach to the NRL.
Noble has been going backwards for years.
Lowes before he was axed achieved what as a Coach?
Macnamara.........
On and on......
Then look at the cattle they are Coaching it adds up to one result mediocrity.

Exactly.

Clubs are taking the cheap option. Coaches are inexperienced, and what qualifications do they have? Are they good enough? What management skills do they have? Some seem to be recruiting some awful players that just don't seem to fit into a club. It's frustrating.

What happened to all your guys boasting 4 or 5 weeks ago?
I know fans can be fickle but you were singing Agar's name from the rooftops not so long ago. I'd stick with him.

The quality is more spread across clubs, people often refer to 'cancelling each other out'. I think that's happening in many games.
At Wires people have been saying it's as bad as 2002. It's NOTHING like 2002, where we were also at the bottom, this year we're a decent side where things haven't quite gone right. Now if you turn up 10% off your game you'll get beat and fans arent used to losing games they feel they have a god given right to win. Thats my experience anyway.

Salary cap.

The same average players will move around from club to club.

Wait till Saints get beat and watch wellsy blame everyone and everything apart from the performance of the team that beat them.

Teams have generally improved and averaged out so there is less discrepancy between the teams at the top and bottom.. there are more good youngsters who have potential quality coming through than i can remember.

Some teams are struggling with the dawn of the new system ie franchising and are still thinking short term ie Wigan. Some are building siold foundations for the future ie Hudds and Cas.

i look forward to Smiths England team because it should be made up of players from all teams who are on form. I will judge the success of SL in two more years then we will see where we are

With the league table (with the exception of Saints) looking like it does, are we finally seeing the benefits of the salary cap?

Warrington have suffered over the years by not having a proven, experienced and winning coach who can put confidence into players and hopefully bring some consistency.

Van de Velde, Anderson, Plange, Cullen, Lowes has been the past 12 years and after that finally the club have made a good appointment.

We have got big stars who haven't lived up to potential but hopefully they now will.

But it's ALL the match officials fault!

Pages upon pages on these forums PROVE this.

It is NEVER, EVER the coaches or players fault, whatever the state of the game!

The mating call of the loser or what.

It's so predictable, the fans of clubs who think they have a god given right to dominate always use this pathetic excuse whenever there big money doesn't but success.

FFS it's how the franchise works and it's what people allegedly wanted and even playing field a chance for teams to build. Yet when you get it you don't like it.

Why don't you just face the truth for once. Wakey and Hudds have spent well and built good teams whilst Hull and Bradford haven't.

There is one very simple explanatotion for your plight, you are a poor team regardless of the supertar players you reckon you have. Get over your self and drop the snobbery.

Boo Hoo, didums poor old Hull are losing and Wellsy can't take it - so SL is crap and the teams above are only there because Hull and Bradford aren't performing and they should be because on paper (the worlds best playing surface) they should be, must be, this simply can't be boo hoo boo hoo. This really is the worst attitude any fan can have and ruins our game

I like to measure how good a team is, by how good they are when they play to their maximum capability. If Leeds or Saints play anyone else bar the other and play to their maximum, they are unbeatable. If any other team plays to their maximum, Leeds and Saints are still able to beat them by having an off day. This is the gulf in class. This is not to say that Leeds/Saints will always win when having an off day, they wont, so in theory, they are beatable as the losses section of the league shows.

Its upto the other teams to follow their lead. I think a major contribution to both teams success is relatively small player turnover compared to other teams especially in the key roles and a team built on having a great team spirit. I remember Wayne Bennett saying in an interview once that he thinks a major contribution to success is team spirit. If all your players are good friends off the pitch, it helps massively on the pitch as they will die for each other.

Struth I think for once I agree with Vastman


It was always going to be thus. The 'big' clubs who now find the teams they used to crush are becoming competitive and their fans are not happy bunnies. No easy games anymore for them and their god given right to win is no longer there. Other clubs fans are happy to see their team 'in the mix' now with everyone able to spend the full SC but Im afraid the fans of the 'big' clubs are not going to like it folks unless they can have their 'rightfull place' at the top of the league

I don't think anyone has a God given right to win at all. What I can see is some teams with some brilliant players playing utter dross. I don't have a problem with losing as long as there is a decent game on. Bradford vs Warrington was one of the poorest spectacles I have ever seen. Both teams, with some proven class players, played absolutely shocking standards of rugby.
I don't think it's because the salary cap has evened out where the players go that the lower teams have become more competitive. I think that's insulting to some of the players that have come through the academies over the years. I think our talent pool has increased which is why there is more competition. But I think the standard of rugby has gone down because of a shocking standard of coaching at the moment. Unforced error rates being high and 5-drives and a kick tactics are not good spectacles and not because players are being evened out.


I think Hull have built a decent side to be fair. And Bradford's is definitely not as bad as the table suggests.
And I have recognised many times that teams have built well. Hudds especially. But it's the coaches job to build the team as well, which goes with my point.


Possibly the most stupid reply I have ever seen. How is being a poor team an explanation? The explanation would be WHY we are a poor team. Why do you think Hull's team are poor at the moment? Why do you think Wire are poor? Why are Bulls poor?


That's not what I'm saying at all. You're either being purposely ignorant so you can have a pop, or you just can't understand what I'm saying.

If Hull finish bottom but play with some flair and passion and skill then what more can I ask for? As long as the product on the pitch is entertaining then I have no problem with losing. But we have been poor as a team, like Wire and Bulls and Catalans and Wigan. There are proven players in these teams. Being a good coach means more than recruiting the best players. I don't want to see a close league because the standards level down. I want to see them level up. Only Leeds and Saints seem to be maintaining a decent standard at the moment.

In fairness to Catalans I think they are starting to look like the team of last year now. Walters had a big job on his hands to follow Mick Potter but he's starting to settle in now.

People wanted an even competition. Well you got one. Trouble is, it's evened downwards. Sometimes you should be careful what you wish for.

At the end of the day you have to look at three main factors.

1. The quality of English players is the worst it has ever been. The very basics of the game are completely dead in England, they are not taught to players at any stage. So English players come through the ranks totally under skilled.

2. The quality of coaching at every level of the game in the UK is criminal.

3. Imports go over to England for money and nothing else. They don't really care how they perform.



At the end of the day no one in England has any drive to fix any of these problems. If you lot don't care, neither do I.

What a crock of crap, typical of the British mentality. When someone does well for themselves and disturbs the status quo let's knock em down by suggesting things ain't what they used to be.

So we can only assume that if Saints or Leeds and the percieved other big club Wigan, Bradford. Hull or Warrington don't win SL and say Cas do. It will only be bcause those teams have gone down hill not that others have simply got better and won on merit - genuinly pathetic attitude.

Go off and have a hug with that idiot LF, you give him everything he needs.

Good grief

For once a post of League Freak I can find nothing to argue about.


Worrying times

#
you were the same a couple of seasons ago

Yes, now the Salary Cap is beginning to bear fruits the quality of Super League games & players has deteriorated

.

Let’s get back to the ‘Big Four’ scenario shall we, because internationally we were so much better then. But a least then supporters of certain clubs could go along knowing their beloved team would win – where’s the enjoyment in that?

Salary Cap, Imports, Quality of coaches, blah, blah.

We haven’t beat the Aussies since I was a lad, and that’s a long time ago, and if I knew the answer I’d be sat with those numpty’s at Red Hall, but to blame the Salary Cap!

2 years ago?

imo my club has got better quality year on year for the last 5. yes st's and leeds are better than anyone but the rest are generally all at the same level. no different in the nrl where the storm have been far better than 90% of teams for the last 4 years.

Too much money and time spent on making already decent players gell rather than develop their own players. Like has already been said there is just a merry-go-round of average British players combined with over the hill Aussies or not quite good enough for the NRL overseas players and our resources are aimed primarily on making all these gell in the first team and very little is put into making sure lots of kids take up the sport and are developed properly. Next time the franchises are up, I'd want to see what the Super League clubs do at local junior sides, schools etc... as part of the points system.