Accidental infringements such as knock ons, going into touch etc give a scrum.

Deliberate infringments such as high tackle or offside are penalties.

Passing backwards is part of the bedrock of our great game. Its almost impossible to use technology to judge it yet all forward passes are deliberate. You cannot accidentally pass forward.

On that basis, should forward passes not result in a penalty these days as an extra deterent for those that appear to do it constantly (everyone does it from time to time)?

I don't expect anyone called Sinfield, McGuire or Tomkins to agree with this

I don't agree with the logic. High tackles are not all deliberate. Neither are forward passed. People don't intend to do them, they just happen.

There is a deliberate forward pass rule, isn't there? I've never seen one given though

No. Not all forward passes are deliberate, in the same way not all knock-ons are accidental. The rule is fine.

There is a deliberate knock on rule, to stop players just swatting the ball away. Not seen it penalised too often though.

Just trying to think of ways that forward passing could be reduced.

Happens far too often. Leeds are the prime culprits although I don't blame them, they play fast and pass flat most if the time and its an exceptionally fine line between flat and forward. The momentum thing has always annoyed me, its simply an excuse for missing forward passes.

I just think that there has to be a way if judging it better. Out if all the rule infringements its a core rule and when broken, more often than not leads directly to a try. Hence a harsher punishment for it might help.

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Any evidence to support that sweeping statement?

I've seen a penalty given for a deliberate forward pass (as in about 6ms forward) here in oz in NSW Cup.

Leeds have been penalized for a forward pass at HQ. it was Gansen or Bentham.

It's if the guy you are passing to is already infront of you, basically because he is offside.

Exactly.

I also think that there's a rule in place to stop you running at the defensive line, throwing the ball up and over the tacklers and catching it on the other side before it bounces.

Reduce forward passes? Simple, penalise the flat pass, I thought the rule of rugby was that passes had to go backwards.

You've never played rugby have you?

I'll try to explain. In the act of making a pass, a time elapses between starting the act and releasing the ball. During that time, your brain is making small subconcious adjustments to put the ball in the optimum place for the intended receiver. If the receiver's run is mistimed, or you simply misunderstand the timing and direction of his run, you may well release the ball in a forward direction, long before you've been able to consciously stop and think "no, hang on, I can't let the pass go because that would be forward, and that's against the rules".

No, it's that they can't go forwards. Flat isn't forwards.

Exactly. I'm constantly amazed at how many fans don't know basic law. It's not like the book is hard to get hold of and doesn't explain what's allowed and what isn't, and why.

I'm not against flat passing. I marvel at the accuracy and skill many players have. However there are far too many forward passes that get missed every week and just think changing the rule from a scrum to a penalty would be more appropriate to emphasise this base rule of our game. Or is there any better way of detecting what is the hardest of our technical rules to judge?.

Suprise suprise an anti Leeds post, why not just ban Leeds players from passing the ball full stop

Pretty much spot on.
Also peaple are so obsessed with the lines on the field. If you are running at speed and pass the ball to a player 2-3m behind you the ball will appear to go forward in relation to the ground. This is momentum. Hardback era pass to hall was tipicle of this on Sunday. Hall was always behind hardaker.

Rollin Thunder - tongue in cheak, yes. However Leeds play very flat and fast which has to be admired and because of that they have a greater chance of this occurring. Its a very fine line. Please read the rest of the posts on this thread. I don't want to stifle creative moves, just throwing an idea out there to cut down forward passes generally.

If the sanction for a forward pass was a penalty, then the number of forward pass decisions would decline, as refs would rightly be more reluctant to make a decision that is more of a punishment to the defending team.

Not sure a penalty is enough of a sanction, maybe a warning and potential sin-bin for repeat offenders would stop this terrible crime. The RFL should also consider bans for those that continually pass the ball forward so they are discouraged from doing so, especially if they do it on purpose.

Ferocious Aardvark - yes I know and you're almost certainly right. But if we can't find a better way of detecting them more easily we should still have a harsher decision against the attacking side than just a scrum.

Flat passes are exciting and can lead to great trys. Forward passes can lead to trys that shouldn't be given (although I've heard Stevo say something like 'it doesn't matter, that move deserved a try' on numerous occasions). A forward pass should always matter, especially leading to a try, no matter how good the rest of the move was.

There must be hundreds of times I have witnessed the most obvious blatant forward passes only to watch the game later at home and realise that it was actually OK. [i(By the way, when doing this yourself use your own judgement, don't take Pinky & Perkys word for it.)[/i Forward passes must be one of the most difficult things to referee and to be honest I'm amazed that they get it right as often as they do.

BUT, it shouldn't be so difficult to miss an offside when the receiving player is in front of the passer when the ball is passed. These happen very frequently and whilst they may or may not be spotted as a forward pass, I can't ever remember seeing this given as a penalty given for offside.

Do you feel the same toward technically incorrect play the balls?

Him - if you mean no attempt to get to your feet and roll it back with the foot then yes. However moving off the mark at ptb is more annoying. I know it happens and all teams do it a bit but some really take the mick.

One instance last weekend (sorry Leeds fans) a leeds player held onto a defenders arm trying to milk a holding down penalty but was waved away. He then rolled over the top of the tackling player by a metre or two (allegedly clearing the ruck that he himself was slowing down) and then took ANOTHER couple of steps forward before playing the ball.

Anyway, back to forward passing and any ideas that might actually help cut them down....