I saw England beat Australia on TV at the Centenary world cup when I was still at school, but it was just another sport on BBC TV at the time. Little would I know that would be the only time I'd see England beat a Tier 1 team at a world cup in my lifetime.

Before the disastrous world cup in 2000 I was a Super League season ticket holder, and I've been to every world cup since, I've seen some horrible defeats and some painful exits, not many World cup high points involving England at all, but I really despair at the lack of quality England can call upon. In 200o we ran out of wingers, in 2017 we only had 1 centre. Players get older and slower but the replacements don't step up to the mark and displace them from the team. The same tried and failed players look good in the league and then get picked again and battered in full internationals.

Results in 2000 and 2008 were disastrous for different reasons, but in 2013 and 2017 I thought we had a genuine chance. We grew through the tournament in 2013 and actually put out a good team in a losing semi final. A huge upgrade on the coaching side made up for the reduced squad quality in 2017 but a favourable draw and creditable niling in the final isn't what I am after. I just want to see England win another big game before I give up, or the game I knew is gone for good.

2022 looks like another downgrade in terms of squad and a bigger one in terms of coaching staff. looks like we are falling down the rankings rather than looking to use home advantage to beat the best. Why is there such a lack of quality England players, particularly creative ones, and will we ever be able to turn the tide on this one?

Past England Teams for Context:

2000– Semi Final Exit, Wins against Tier 1 Nations: 0
Team in last tournament appearance:
Radlinski, Walker, Naylor, Senior, Wellens, Deacon, Long
Fielden, Smith, Howard, Sculthorpe, Forshaw, Farrell
Peacock, Hay, Fleary, Anderson
Coach: John Kear

2008 – Semi Final Exit, Wins against Tier 1 Nations: 0
Team in last tournament appearance:
Wellens , Gardner, Gleeson, Senior, Calderwood, McGuire, Burrow
Graham, Roby, Peacock, Westwood, Ellis, Purdham
L Pryce, Morley, Higham, Wilkin
Coach: Tony Smith

2013 – Semi Final Exit, Wins against Tier 1 Nations: 0
Team in last tournament appearance:
Tomkins, Charnley, Watkins, Cudjoe, Hall, Widdop, Sinfield,
Graham, Roby, S. Burgess, Ferres, Westwood, O'Loughlin.
Burrow, G. Burgess, Hill, Ablett.
Coach: Steve McNamara

2017– Defeated finalists, Wins against Tier 1 Nations: 0
Team in last tournament appearance:
Widdop, McGillvary, Watkins, Bateman, Hall, Brown, Gale
Hill, Roby, Graham, Currie, Whitehead, S. Burgess
Walmsley, T. Burgess, Heighington, Lomax
Coach: Wayne Bennett


2022 England Squad:
The 30-men who were announced for that squad were:
John Bateman (Wigan Warriors), Daryl Clark (Warrington Wolves), Mike Cooper (Warrington Wolves), Ben Currie (Warrington Wolves), Thomas Davies (Catalans Dragons), Lewis Dodd (St Helens), Niall Evalds (Castleford Tigers), Liam Farrell (Wigan Warriors), Ryan Hall (Hull KR), Zak Hardaker (Wigan Warriors), Morgan Knowles (St Helens), Kruise Leeming (Leeds Rhinos), Matthew Lees (St Helens), Jonny Lomax (St Helens), Reece Lyne (Wakefield Trinity), Jermaine McGillvary (Huddersfield Giants), Paul McShane (Castleford Tigers), Tommy Makinson (St Helens), Liam Marshall (Wigan Warriors), Harry Newman (Leeds Rhinos), Mikolaj Oledzki (Leeds Rhinos), Kai Pearce-Paul (Wigan Warriors), Mark Percival (St Helens), Stefan Ratchford (Warrington Wolves), Dan Sarginson (Salford Red Devils), Sam Tomkins (Catalans Dragons), Alex Walmsley (St Helens), Jake Wardle (Huddersfield Giants), Jack Welsby (St Helens), George Williams (Warrington Wolves).
The final 24-man squad is set to be confirmed on Friday, September 30.

England Men's World Cup squad:

Sam Tomkins (Catalans Dragons) - Captain
Andy Ackers (Salford Red Devils)
Joe Batchelor (St Helens)
John Bateman (Wigan Warriors)
Tom Burgess (South Sydney Rabbitohs)
Mike Cooper (Wigan Warriors)
Herbie Farnworth (Brisbane Broncos)
Ryan Hall (Hull KR)
Chris Hill (Huddersfield Giants)
Morgan Knowles (St Helens)
Matty Lees (St Helens)
Tommy Makinson (St Helens)
Michael McIlorum (Catalans Dragons)
Mike McMeeken (Catalans Dragons)
Mikolaj Oledzki (Leeds Rhinos)
Kai Pearce-Paul (Wigan Warriors)
Victor Radley (Sydney Roosters)
Marc Sneyd (Salford Red Devils)
Luke Thompson (Canterbury Bulldogs)
Kallum Watkins (Salford Red Devils)
Jack Welsby (St Helens)
Elliott Whitehead (Canberra Raiders)
George Williams (Warrington Wolves)
Dom Young (Newcastle Knights)

There arguably isn't. We've seen some trash play for England/GB over the years. I can remember Paul Wellens playing on the wing for example.

There is a lot of talent around at the moment and arguably we're seeing more players heading for Australia than ever before which can't be a bad thing for the international team.

It's just a shame this year that there are so many injured. The likes of Welsby, Dodd, Lomax, Percival, Walmsley and Lees would be the backbone of the England team, but sadly only a couple of them are fit. I don't see a better combo out there in the halves than Lomax and Dodd, which is what England would have had if it were not for bad luck.

So, the squad is out. Very surprised (but perhaps I shouldn't be) with the inclusion of McIllorum and frigging Mike Cooper

Wakefields fault probably.

Too many fixtures and the game is too fast now with the "6 agaaaaaiiiinnnnn" rule leading to more injuries.... IMG suggest cutting the season down to 22 games and having more internationals which could grow rugby leagues profile, attract more players to the game if international RL is more high profile and can pay more....narrow minded clubs chairmen reject IMG proposals as they want as many fixtures as possible from local teams that bring 100 away fans and buy pies to keep their club just viable from another year.... international games remain sporadic....players continue to get injured to due to too many games and game being too fast.... international team worsens....cycle repeats.

If you have any connection with Wigan you get a free pass into the squad. McIlorum and Cooper? FFS, we knew Wane would do this but it's so tiresome.

England Men's World Cup squad:

Sam Tomkins (Catalans Dragons) - Quality, but past his best?
Andy Ackers (Salford Red Devils) - Deserves it after a great season
Joe Batchelor (St Helens) - Automatic starter, best 2nd row in SL by a mile
John Bateman (Wigan Warriors) - Very lucky, just Wigan connections keeping him in now
Tom Burgess (South Sydney Rabbitohs) - Deserved
Mike Cooper (Wigan Warriors) - Shocking selection. Mr Average, does not deserve his place, Wigan connections again
Herbie Farnworth (Brisbane Broncos) - Deserved
Ryan Hall (Hull KR) - Living on past glories. Not good enough, but hopefully won't play anyway
Chris Hill (Huddersfield Giants) - Another very lucky to get in, undeserved
Morgan Knowles (St Helens) - Automatic pick at 13
Matty Lees (St Helens) - Automatic pick a prop
Tommy Makinson (St Helens) - Automatic pick on wing
Michael McIlorum (Catalans Dragons) - Again, Wigan connections? What on earth is this selection about?
Mike McMeeken (Catalans Dragons) - Deserved
Mikolaj Oledzki (Leeds Rhinos) - One for the future, nowhere near the level required yet but getting there
Kai Pearce-Paul (Wigan Warriors) - Wigan connections. Wigan connections. Wigan connections. Done absolutely nothing all season.
Victor Radley (Sydney Roosters) - Deserved
Marc Sneyd (Salford Red Devils) - Que?
Luke Thompson (Canterbury Bulldogs) - Automatic pick at prop
Kallum Watkins (Salford Red Devils) - Quality player, deserves his place
Jack Welsby (St Helens) - Automatic pick at fullback, but common sense will see him play 6 instead given Lomax is unavailable
Elliott Whitehead (Canberra Raiders) - Automatic pick at second row
George Williams (Warrington Wolves) - What? Wigan connections? Awful player, awful season, completely undeserving.
Dom Young (Newcastle Knights) - Good pick, proving himself in the NRL

My thoughts there. Bolded ones are very lucky to be there. The fact they're still in the 'Wigun lads barbie-cue' Whatsapp group getting most of them in there.

Mcillorums temperament is a worry, if he gets sinbinned or sent off in a big game, it could cost us big time

Do we think if Hardaker hadn't walked out on Wigan he would have got a spot? He's been very, very good in a variety of backline positions for Leeds in the run-in.

But taking that approach to Wigan was always going to be fatal to his chances of getting into a Wane squad.

Hall and Hill a bit past it now, don’t think Sneyd is an international player, Williams and Bateman struggling this season.

Would have Hardaker in the squad looks OK of late, don’t know if Connor is injured he,s a better international player than his domestic version.

I might go against the grain here but im glad McIlorum is in. We need a pack that wont get bullied and has a bit of bite. Ackers at hooker? The aussies would just put their hand on his head and keep him at arms length like you do with toddlers.

I thought Marshall would have got in the squad at least as he scores tries and has real pace.

On paper Somoa are a better side.

Home advantage may get England the win but I fancy Somoa to beat England.

A kangeroo series seems more pointless than ever right now. Australia would batter England.

It's inexcusable for a side like England to lack so much genuine quality.

We won’t win a World Cup again on individual talent in the next 20 years. The only way we will even beat Australia is through a combination of sheer luck, unbelievable motivation and desire, every referee decision to go our way and at least 5 HIAs/injuries to them in the game.

Therefore it’s mostly irrelevant if the squad includes some players who aren’t as good as others.

Geta grip we was a ankle tap from probably winning the final in 2017 against aussies

I think we would of had a chance had lomax, percival, Walmsley and Roby been fit/played

Think Samoa are stronger than NZ and will be a serious threat to Australia

A lot of key Penrith players who have dominated the nrl last few years so the gelling issue shouldn't be a problem

Would have only made it 6-6. We'd have still had to score again.

I think the problem for Samoa and Tonga, even Australia is that we're likely to see mass pullouts. Once one big name does it, tons of them will.

I don't think they will. There are players from Somoa and Tonga who turned down the chance to earn great money to play for Australia.

They wont turn down the Green and Gold
only then to pull out.

How many of these players would you say are in there prime?

Sam - past his prime which was 10-12 years ago

Akers - prime but untested

Batchellor - prime but untested

Bateman - not in form he was 3-4 years ago

Burgess - not in form he was 4-5 years ago

Cooper - past his prime in his NRL/peak wire days

Herbie - probs a few years away from his prime

Hall - 7+ years past his prime

Hill - still a great player but 5+ years past his prime

Knowles - in his prime

Lees - in his prime

Makinson - in his prime

McIlorum - 5+ years past his prime

McMeeken - in his prime

Oledzki - maybe a few years off his prime

KPP - still developing, years off his prime

Radley - prime

Sneyd - not seen enough, untested at this level

Thompson - prime

Watkins - playing well but a few years later his explosive best at Leeds

Welsby - playing great but untested and will probably been even better at the next World Cup

Whitehead - prime

Williams - prime but out of form

Young - will be in his prime at the next World Cup

Farrell, Walmsley, Newman, Lomax, Percival are big misses to the squad.

Gone are the days off stalwarts like Farrell, Peacock, Morley, Ellis, O’Loughlin, Burgess, Sculthrope

We have to face up to the fact that we overestimate the quality of a lot of players, who perform in super league but look out of their depth against Austrailia.

In the past though, we've had a least a few 'top-quality' players (Sculthorpe, peacock, etc) whereas now, even taking into account injuries I don't think there's any top top quality. It's a very meh squad.

Put it into perspective though, we're basically relying on players from a few small northern English pit towns. It's David and Goliath.

I think over the years we have had the players to beat Australia and even win a world cup.

A lot of the time we play players out of position instead of playing out and out positional players.

Wellens on the wing? Widdop at FB. Bateman at centre. It’s just trying to shoehorn players in.

We actually have a top pack. And a back line that’s decent:

Young
Farnworth
? - Not sure who we’ll pick here.
Makinson

Lees
McIllorum
Thompson
Bateman
Whitehead
Radley

That pack will mix it with them all. Our quality in the halves will let us down this year.

England set to rotate the squad in the next game, I hope there is genuine competition for places as I felt that our best 17 wasn't on the field against Samoa. It might be easy to dismiss anyone impressing against "lesser" opposition, but I hope Wane gives everyone a fair go at showing their form.
If it is just a case of resting the favourites to bring them back no matter how well someone plays it would be disappointing, although i recall it took until the semis in 2013 for the England coach to put the best team out on the field.

i didn't see a lot of mcmeeken at the weekend, saw a bit of whitehead but not too much of right side backrow, i dont know what the stats say.