Shame on you Sam Tomkins and the other player who’s name I can’t remember. Abusing bar staff? Very big of you. Video on Facebook

Regards

King James

It's a blessing that camera phones weren't about back in the days of Longy and Gleeson in nexus

Or briers and gleeson around warrington on mondays. Excuse the theme.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MPww-IBzps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MPww-IBzps

TBF it was 99% Joel Tomkins

Oh in that case it’s ok

Regards

King James

What I can't understand is, why are they still employed?

There is one big difference between the Kelly and Tomkins’ incidents.
Joel Tomkins actually goes behind the bar and there is physical contact between him and a young woman. He’s gone beyond verbal abuse.

Sam was too drunk to notice.

Thanks for clearing up that verbal abuse is ok but physical abuse isn’t

Regards

King James

He's not said it's ok. He just said it's not as bad. It's still bad.

Joel Tomkins shouldn't wear a Wigan shirt again. Sam should spend a long time on the sidelines.

There we have it. Verbal abuse isn’t as bad as physical abuse. Thanks for that

Regards

King James

Who even cares?

Verbal abuse can just have the same harmful effects as physical, which is why something need some to be done about the abuse of referees.

Back to the Tomkins, the fact they haven't been sacked yet is disappointing.

Obviously it can’t as the hull fc fan just said

Regards

King James

Joel Tomkins doesn’t touch her, he tries to walk round the bar but his arms are down by his side and the woman pushes and shouts, a massive overreaction. Stupid, abusive and out of order? Yes. But I’ve seen nothing that suggests either of them should be sacked. Some of the stuff he says is disgraceful but if your going to engage with someone who’s drunk and aggressive then what do you expect? Comments such as “it’s not my career that will be ruined” sum it up for me. He should apologise and possibly fined but that’s about it.

Has it been snowing in Lancashire today?
Seems to be plenty of snowflakes around.

You’ll find that I condemned Kelly’s behaviour and thought he got off lightly. I do not, and never have, condoned verbal abuse.
However, there is indeed a clear line between verbal abuse and physical abuse. Neither is acceptable, but there is a clear difference in my view.

He is to blame for the physical contact. He’s somewhere he knows he shouldn’t be, using his physical presence to intimidate the bar staff.
Your view that the bar staff are to blame for his abusive behaviour because they asked him to leave and didn’t just accept his behaviour is bizarre. And very wrong.

I will apologise for my post and take back what I said as I misread it. You stated he went past verbal, to physical and I misread. Apologies.

Regards

King James

I’m not saying he isn’t to blame and I agree that the woman is well within her rights to push him back but to shout when he’s clearly not touching her was wrong. I’m also not blaming them for his abusive behaviour but they certainly antagonised him deliberately, knowing who both of them are. I can’t understand why she felt the need to stand with a phone recording him when there’s cctv. Also the comments made didn’t help either like ‘it’s not my career that will be ruined’, ‘weirdo’ and whispering about Sam as well. They aren’t the sort of things you would say if you felt so scared.

In summary, I think they’ve refused to serve Joel which he hasn’t liked. He’s then kicked off and been abusive which is obviously out of order. Clearly they know who they both are and are annoyed with them and have used Joel’s aggressive behaviour to make him look as bad as possible by looking for a reaction. Those two idiots coming over shouting at Joel didn’t help either. That’s why, for me, nothing more should be made of it than an apology. The woman filming also out of order.

CCTV won't pick up what's being said and considering filming it got Sam to shut up pretty quickly it had a good effect on things. If she hadn't I could see things being worse.

To me it looked planned. Joel Tomkins spoke about something happening before the video but was cut off very quickly. His hands are by his side when the girl screams at him to get off (she actually pushes him first whilst telling him to get off). I can’t see any contact. Also the other barmaid is smirking at the girl with the phone, she knows the phone is there even though the girl was trying to hide it because she looks at it.

I think they saw how p*ssed they both were, wound them up, started videoing when the abuse came in and then there’s a story about it. Joel Tomkins is in the wrong with the abuse but I think the girl knew what she was doing in the first place.

In that case then, after been refused at the bar they should have walked away instead of kicking off and likely scaring the two women bar staff and that would have been the end of it. But no they carry on and even try getting behind the bar! Only two people who are out of order here and that’s the Tomkins brothers. Being in the limelight in Wigan and young kids role models, they should have known better.