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| Not directly related to RL but directly related to RL fans' rantings about the unfair treatment RL gets. Well after a positive start to the RUWC from an RU fans perspective, Panorama did a hatchet job on the dangers of RU and in particular tackling. They didn't mention RL at all (which they could easily have blamed as the source of all their ills).
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| I know a couple people involved with the American Football team featured in part of it, and they said it was originally a production for BBC Scotland Investigates, which is probably why there was little RL mention, as they don't have any professional teams up there.
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| Well it came up as a story in the press some month's back, didn't it?
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| I do somtimes wonder what the beeb is up to? having a go at union at the start of a major competition, they did the same with football in the run up to the world cup vote & suprise suprise we go no votes. Maybe it is because they dont havethe broadcast rights.
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| I saw that, expecting there to be some mention of RL; the issues were broadly the same, but the code wasn't mentioned at all.
I thought Bill Beaumont's absolute refusal to acknowledge the issue was quite telling - juxtaposed with all the ballyhoo about the RUWC, it was quite jarring; it did feel rather like an attempt to pi$$ on someone's cornflakes.
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| Been running a topical story when that sport is most in the news. What's the confusion?
Out of interest did they say that your more at risk dying from a bee sting whilst out on a walk in the countryside than on a sports field playing either code of rugby?
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| Quote ="JB Down Under"Been running a topical story when that sport is most in the news. What's the confusion?
Out of interest did they say that your more at risk dying from a bee sting whilst out on a walk in the countryside than on a sports field playing either code of rugby?'"
I don't suppose risk of death is the only thing that players need to be protected from though; the long term effects of repeated concussion can be life-changing, and could see the governing body of either code in hot water if they can't be seen to have done everything reasonably practicable to remove or mitigate that risk.
I imagine it's only a matter of time before one or more players of either code bring some form of action against the governing body; hasn't that already happened in the NFL?
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| Quote ="bren2k"I saw that, expecting there to be some mention of RL; the issues were broadly the same, but the code wasn't mentioned at all.
I thought Bill Beaumont's absolute refusal to acknowledge the issue was quite telling - juxtaposed with all the ballyhoo about the RUWC, it was quite jarring; it did feel rather like an attempt to pi$$ on someone's cornflakes.'" Bill Beaumont. Did he say he's not affected at all by head injuries? If so, there must be some other explanation for the fact that I came across him at Schipol airport about 20 years ago with the woman on the KLM ticket desk having to explain to him that he wasn't in the right place to check in for his flight.
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| There was reference to a former Australian rugby player - but no mention of which sport. Yes, the NFL has had claims from ex-players. So, yes, the RFL / NRL may need to rethink the rules too. Tag rugby?
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| Also, yes I guess the BBC was miffed about not getting the rights given the timing. I was surprised RL wasn't blamed - there was an article written in the press by a woman a few months back who if I recall said she was / would not be keen to let her son play as the game (RU) was getting too physical and then seemed to blame it all on Sam Burgess a human battering ram brought in from RL!
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| How does boxing get by!
They've just removed head guards from amateur boxing!
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| Quote ="bren2k"I don't suppose risk of death is the only thing that players need to be protected from though; the long term effects of repeated concussion can be life-changing, and could see the governing body of either code in hot water if they can't be seen to have done everything reasonably practicable to remove or mitigate that risk.
I imagine it's only a matter of time before one or more players of either code bring some form of action against the governing body; hasn't that already happened in the NFL?'"
No it hasn't. Sport has inherent risk and you accept that risk if you decide to play the sport. The NFL case was due to the NFL not informing the players of evidence they had of danger of repeated concussions therefore not giving players an opportunity to make an informed decision about taking the risk. Concussions still happen in the NFL. They still allow the shoulder charge, despite RL saying it is a major issue. It is I a sports interest to minimise risk to a point but if you wanted to reduce risk significantly in RL you would need to start playing flag or touch, most injuries happen in legitimate tackles.
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| While I'm not dismissing the effects of repeated concussions, the cases of individuals who've suffered the type of long term condition shown in the programme are few and very far between.
I've been involved in Rugby League all my life, I myself have played at many different levels and know hundreds of friends who've played international, SL, NRL and amateur. I would struggle to name 4 or 5 that have any type of mental condition and it is debatable whether it was caused by Rugby League.
The issues are very real for those individuals who do suffer reactions to being concussed, so I'm not diminishing those cases.
However
The programme makers, sports scientists and doctors are doing what they always do and sensationalising their work with over the top reactions.
How does football escape this argument, the number of times you see a clash of heads in football is greater than either Rugby code. The damage caused by repeated heading of the ball must be more significant than that of the whiplash effect of collisions in Rugby. I for one would not want to get my head under a ball that's been launched 70 metres downfield by the opposition Goalkeeper.
Boxing, I love the sport but come on..
If we're having a discussion about the effects of concussion on sportsmen and women then it has to start with Boxing, UFC etc.
As someone said earlier this smacks of a smug BBC journalist trying to make a name for themselves by timing this oversensationalised programme with the start of ITVs Rugby World Cup.
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| Quote ="The Avenger"While I'm not dismissing the effects of repeated concussions, the cases of individuals who've suffered the type of long term condition shown in the programme are few and very far between.
I've been involved in Rugby League all my life, I myself have played at many different levels and know hundreds of friends who've played international, SL, NRL and amateur. I would struggle to name 4 or 5 that have any type of mental condition and it is debatable whether it was caused by Rugby League.
The issues are very real for those individuals who do suffer reactions to being concussed, so I'm not diminishing those cases.
However
The programme makers, sports scientists and doctors are doing what they always do and sensationalising their work with over the top reactions.
How does football escape this argument, the number of times you see a clash of heads in football is greater than either Rugby code. The damage caused by repeated heading of the ball must be more significant than that of the whiplash effect of collisions in Rugby. I for one would not want to get my head under a ball that's been launched 70 metres downfield by the opposition Goalkeeper.
Boxing, I love the sport but come on..
If we're having a discussion about the effects of concussion on sportsmen and women then it has to start with Boxing, UFC etc.
As someone said earlier this smacks of a smug BBC journalist trying to make a name for themselves by timing this oversensationalised programme with the start of ITVs Rugby World Cup.'"
All the sports listed are nowhere near as dangerous as horse riding, which Her Majesty still does at 89 without a hat!
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| Quote ="Dally"All the sports listed are nowhere near as dangerous as horse riding, which Her Majesty still does at 89 without a hat!'"
As does the Duke of Edinburgh who's even older. All those head-first landings clearly did him no harm.
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| Quote ="BroncOnIon"Bill Beaumont. Did he say he's not affected at all by head injuries? If so, there must be some other explanation for the fact that I came across him at Schipol airport about 20 years ago with the woman on the KLM ticket desk having to explain to him that he wasn't in the right place to check in for his flight.'"
Bills facial features certainly tell a story of a man who taken some shots.
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| Pleased to see there's a special section on their website for English Rugby.
Just been on there but I can't find any news about the 24 man squad announcement or the upcoming fixtures against France and NZ.
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| Quote ="BroncOnIon"Bill Beaumont. Did he say he's not affected at all by head injuries? If so, there must be some other explanation for the fact that I came across him at Schipol airport about 20 years ago with the woman on the KLM ticket desk having to explain to him that he wasn't in the right place to check in for his flight.'"
Bill Beaumont retired as a result of head injuries.
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| Quote ="alleycat"Bill Beaumont retired as a result of head injuries.'"
He's probably forgotten that himself, what with all the head injuries
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| Quote ="Andy Gilder"He's probably forgotten that himself, what with all the head injuries'"
to true
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| Quote ="Andy Gilder"He's probably forgotten that himself, what with all the head injuries'"
and the beer in the Taps PH Lytham might just have an affect on long and short term mem......
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| Quote ="The Avenger"While I'm not dismissing the effects of repeated concussions, the cases of individuals who've suffered the type of long term condition shown in the programme are few and very far between.
I've been involved in Rugby League all my life, I myself have played at many different levels and know hundreds of friends who've played international, SL, NRL and amateur. I would struggle to name 4 or 5 that have any type of mental condition and it is debatable whether it was caused by Rugby League.
The issues are very real for those individuals who do suffer reactions to being concussed, so I'm not diminishing those cases.
However
The programme makers, sports scientists and doctors are doing what they always do and sensationalising their work with over the top reactions.
How does football escape this argument, the number of times you see a clash of heads in football is greater than either Rugby code. The damage caused by repeated heading of the ball must be more significant than that of the whiplash effect of collisions in Rugby. I for one would not want to get my head under a ball that's been launched 70 metres downfield by the opposition Goalkeeper.
Boxing, I love the sport but come on..
If we're having a discussion about the effects of concussion on sportsmen and women then it has to start with Boxing, UFC etc.
As someone said earlier this smacks of a smug BBC journalist trying to make a name for themselves by timing this oversensationalised programme with the start of ITVs Rugby World Cup.'"
Excellent post, I've dug into risk analysis in sport a fair bit and as part of my job did risk assessment for our company. I've always banged the drum against the misguided masses and how they misunderstand risk and how to avoid the issues that come up not by throwing a guard/helmet around something or a hi-vis vest but through behavioural/procedural & general environment change. The former actually increases incidents.
My particular personal beef with regard to risk are the lying/fact bending/sensationalising protagonists for cycle helmets, they usually have an agenda (Steve 'crackhead' Cracknell represents one of the big helmet manufacturers and always bangs on about how his helmet saved his life ) or simply aren't interested in facts either with head injuries or the efficacy of helmets, or rather their the lack thereof!
As you say RL is pretty low down in the head injury stakes even more so given that it is a full contact sport, that in part is to what we are taught as kids and how to play, we all know it fecking hurts to get your head in the wrong place in a tackle and endeavor not to repeat it, even the best make mistakes, just ask James Roby!
Yes getting hit by a swinging/stiff arm, elbow or the occasional accidental knee will happen and can have concussive effects which need looking at (banning the shoulder charge wasn't the solution IMHO) but there are far worse activities in life that need looking at first before you even get to things like boxing!
Walking for instance has roughly the same instance/rate of head injuries as there are for cyclists in the UK (it's actually slightly higher), but I've yet to see any (serious) calls for helmet wearing whilst walking, similarly driving a car, many thousands of head/neck injuries and hundreds of lives might be saved if motorvehicle drivers wore helmets (& neck braces) even for a trip to the supermarket. The truth is though that head injuries go up with helmet wearing (or safety aids in general) due to several factors the main one being risk compensation. It's pretty much the main reason that the ABA removed head gear from boxing due to the increase in concussions comparative to non headgear wearing (though cuts went up long term that is by far a better outcome)
It's the main reason why the NFL are now having to deal with the situation regarding suicides, dementia and other mental health problems due to the nature of the sport and the added protection which ironically were only introduced to stop deaths from happening.
In my opinion, RL has it about right, bring back the shoulder charge BUT penalising high shots has to have much more of a punishment not just to the club but to the individual as well.
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| Quote ="alleycat"Bill Beaumont retired as a result of head injuries.'"
Probably blames it on the fact that he played a few games of amateur rugby league as a youngster for Adlington ARLFC.
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| People I've spoken to who've played American Football admit that the padding and helmets are used more like offensive weapons than protective gear. It encourages them to impact far harder than they would without. While the helmet may prevent their skull from cracking it doesn't stop the brain rattling around inside the skull, and that's what causes concussion.
As for the program being BBC sour grapes, there might be a bit of that in it. On the other hand this story has been kicking around some of the more serious media for a couple of years now, slowly growing in volume. What really surprises me is that the RFU appear to be in denial, Bill Beaumont clearly hasn't realised that the physique of RU players today bear no relation to when he was playing. It's even more surprising considering areas of risk that are unique to RU, such as the risk of neck trauma from scrum collapses, or of falling from height when being lifted in the line out.
The only thing Rugby League can learn from this is to remain vigilant and not go into denial.
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