First there was England's best forward, Sam Burgess defection to the bigger code. Then Sir Kevin, England's best half back in a generations retirement. And the third blow to England's four nations hopes is the injury to jumping Jack Reed. Taking this into account, 2nd place would be a massive achievement this year and the best anyone can hope for.

Looking at the players available, I would reluctantly include matty smith, as without him England will be seriously lacking a kicking game. The squad I think England should go with is as follows.

Tomkins
Hardaker
Watkins
Shenton
Hall
Widdop
Smith
G Burgess
Roby
Graham
Westwood
Ferres
O'Loughlin

Clark
Hill
JJB
Whitehead

Huby
Ablett
Cudjoe
J Burgess
T Burgess
Burrow
Briscoe
McIlorum
Ratchford

What nationality is Brough these days? He still pretending to be a sweaty?

He's always been British.

England is just a brand name.

Whilst he obviously plays FB for the Warriors, I'd like to see Tomkins form a partnership with Widdop in the halves, with Hardaker at FB. For me, Hardaker is a much better defensive full back than Tomkins.

I don't think Brough should be near the England team simply because I don't think he has the temperament for games against the Australians. Some of his dummy spits in SL this season would have made Lee Briers cringe. I'd sooner have Tomkins at 6/7 than I would Brough.

Doesn't matter what team we pick it will get beat by the Aussies beat and get beat by new Zealand in equal measure and easily beat every other country who plays RL in the same way it's gone on for decades

Doesn't matter what team we pick it will get beat by the Aussies beat and get beat by new Zealand in equal measure and easily beat every other country who plays RL in the same way it's gone on for decades

Yep me too. I'd go for:

1. Hardaker
2. Makinson/Briscoe/Charnley
3. Watkins
4. Shenton
5. Hall
6. Tomkins
7. Widdop
8. Graham (C)
9. Roby
10. Hill
11. Westwood
12. Ferres
13. O'Loughlin

14. Clark
15. Burgess G
16. Huby
17. Whitehead

All three Burgess' should be in the starting 17, as should any other NRL player who makes the squad. To beat the Aussies we need players out there who compete with them every week.

Nope.we have very good props in SL, a few which are better than L Burgess imo.Would maybe have Tom on the bench.

Our back row looks to pick itself simply because we have no quality depth in that area right now and we will probably be found out there.

Agree. Just because they play in the NRL doesn't automatically make them better than others.

I wouldn't have Luke or Tom Burgess ahead of Hill and it's a bit of a 50/50 between T Burgess and Huby on the bench.

I've put G Burgess on the bench because I think he'd offer more impact off the bench than Hill would.

Wait a minute, when did Kevin Sinfield get knighted?

It's not a case of who is the better player, it's a case of mentality and psychology. Most of the England team are weaker than their Aussie counterparts if you go through (any variation of) the team man-for-man, let's at least put lads out there who are familiar with beating the Aussies and who know how to do it.

People on here seem to have forgotten about Michael Cooper, the star prop forward for the St. George-Illawarra Dragons. His experience and prestige in the NRL will draw big crowds to England's matches, and enable him to compete with the Australian and New Zealand forwards. The same argument applies to the Burgess twins, George and Thomas. Of the UK based props only Christopher Hill should be allowed to play, as a token of respect for the important role Super League plays in providing quality forward recruits for the NRL.

I agree with the view that Samuel Levi Tomkins might be an asset in the halves.

Thus I would select the following team, which would include both of the Burgess twin steamrollers in the 17:

[iZachary Hardaker

Ryan Hall, Michael Shenton, Kallum Watkins, Thomas Briscoe

Samuel Tomkins
Gareth Widdop

Sean O'Loughlin
Benjamin Westwood, Elliot Whitehead,
James Graham, James Roby, George Burgess[/i

Interchange: [iThomas Burgess, Christopher Hill, Brett Ferres, Darryl Clarke[/i

Remainder of squad: [iThomas Makinson, Leroy Cudjoe, Matthew Smith, Robert Burrow, Michael Cooper, Craig Huby, Carl Ablett[/i

Who are they? I've never heard of them.

I have heard of:

[iZak Hardaker
Tom Briscoe
Sam Tomkins
Ben Westwood[/i
[iTom Burgess
Chris Hill[/i
[iTommy Makinson
Matty Smith
Mike Cooper[/i

Or at least, those are the names that appear on the birth cerificates.

To use incorrect names like that is a sign of complete contempt and disrespect, you should be ashamed of yourself.

So you have seen their birth certificates, have you? When was that exactly?

O'Loughlin is almost done, need to get Joe Westerman in to lock forward.

Cripes, trolls trolling trolls in this thread. Joy.

Not sure hardaker will feature to be honest. If he doesn't get banned I think he will be given the off season to stay out the limelight and get his head together. He would get slammed by the Aussie media and I'm not sure how he would cope with it. With that in mind I would go with the following

Tomkins
Briscoe
Watkins
Ratchford
Hall
Widdop
Smith
Hill
Roby
Graham
Ferres
Westwood
Oloughlin

Clark
G burgess
Cooper
Farrell

Included Briscoe over charnley/makinson because of his Leeds partnership with Watkins. Smith is there for his kicking game. Cooper has come on leaps and bounds so deserves to be in. Farrell gets the last bench spot because in all honesty it was hard to think of someone up to the job, and Farrell doesn't miss many tackles and defence will be important. Ratchford over shenton because shenton has been there and been showed up before and ratchford is more likely to create something out of nothing.

Tomkins, Charnley, Watkins, Shenton, Hall, Widdop, Brough/Sneyd, Graham, Roby, G Burgess, Ferres, Westwood, O'Loughlin

Subs: Clark, Hill, Lynch, Farrell

Squad: Hardaker, Makinson, Ratchford, T. Burgess, Westerman, Whitehead.

If it's a 23 man squad, if 24. Add in one of Cooper or Huby.

That is utter tosh!

Shenton is defensively sound and when he went off injured in the Four Nations, England fell to pieces versus the Aussies when we had a good chance of winning.

He has always performed well at international level.

I fear for Shenton's life if he comes up against Inglis or Jennings. A couple of years ago George Carmont was tearing him a new one.

Better bet than Ratchford though, surely?

He played against Inglis in the aforementioned 4 Nations game I just spoke about. He kept him quiet for most of the game and as soon as he went off, they ran riot down that side.

Definitely. Don't get me wrong, he's still probably the best option there (Cudjoe's form still dodgy?) so anyone we put there will probably have a bad time.

I think a Ferres/Wardle/Hall combo down the left would be really powerful. I'm obviously biased, but at 21/22 Wardle is very nearly international standard..... If he's English, obviously...