The 13 role is one that seems to divide opinions across Super League, with some coaches playing a 3rd prop there, and some playing a more ball handling style 13. What, for you, would be an ideal loose forward?

depends on the balance in the rest of the steam.

Wakefield put a tackling machine at loose for most of last season and tbf it worked pretty well (Washy had a few assists as well)


Usually a ball playing forward though Farrell, Sculthorpe, Hanley, Sinfield etc

It all depends on the rest of the squad. For instance Leeds could (and did last season) use an extra prop or big second rower as they have enough "creativity" with Sinfield and McGuire in the halves, Burrow at hooker and Webb/Hardaker at full back. Whereas another club who might not have as much creativity in other positions might use loose forward as a ball player rather than a workhorse.

Ideally, your 13 would be as big as a front rower, but have the handling skills of a half back. O'loughlin at Wigan is the ideal Loose Forward in the modern game.

He might be the best loose forward in Wigan, but your standards are pretty low if you describe Mr Niggle as [i'the ideal Loose Forward in the modern game'.[/i Sinfield is a class above O'Loughlin as a 13.

but ryan bailey is a class above sinfield.

Sinfield hasn't played 13 for a few years now. I dont particulaly like O'loughlin, but I can't think of a better 13 in Super League at this moment in time.

sam burgess wins hands down for mine, the only reason he shouldn't play there for england is if we have a big shortage of form front rowers come the world cup.

I would expect Hull to go with a ball playing loose this year, either Westerman, Whiting or Galea

You really need to read the posters name before making yourself sound thick.

I think the extra ball handling role has gone to the full back these days with the likes if Tomkins, Slater, etc. The loose's role is now simply a utility forward: either an extra back rower or extra prop.

Why and how? I disagree with his assessment of O'Loughlin, whether he comes from Saint Helens or Carcassonne wouldn't alter that.

At Wire we have Ben Harrison who imo is a prop, a hard working, fit prop.

It works for us to have the extra prop because we have the creativity elsewhere, Briers, Myler, M.Monaghan, Hodgson, Ratchford, O'Brien and to some extent Grix and Bridge (both played at Loose at some point too)

We have that much that we can have the luxury of having more grunt in the pack.

If we were talking about the starting 13 for the world cup for England, i would go for Heigington. I had the feeling not a lot of fans supported him, maybe becuase of the reason he was playing for us. However i think we should give him another go.

he was p*ss poor last year, a change of club may help him, but still doubt he'll even make the england squad next year

I'd be disappointed if Wigan signed him in all honesty.

As for Loose Forward, it's nice to see a position with conflict over the best qualities, gives team different strategies - formations in RL can be a little formulaic otherwise. For me, the players that scream Loose Forward to me in the modern game are S.Burgess, O'Loughlin, Bird, G.Stewart, Gallen, Blair (when he doesn't suck) and Sinfield. Just Forwards with an aspect of ball playing in their game.

Beyond this I'm surprised teams haven't tried... I don't know off the top of my head, dual hookers more like NZ with Luke/Leuluai, sometimes St.Helens with Roby who could make an interesting choice at loose. Or even a proper floating 3 man backrow: instead of Left/Tight/Right make set plays around them all stacking one side or something. I mean Leeds played with 3 halves with Sinfield at loose which worked for a long time. Hell, even James Graham would make a fantastic loose forward imo.

Then again I'm still surprised no team has had the balls to try out a dual fullback system, I was quietly hoping Souths might try it with Merrit being a shadow to anyone with an offload and Inglis taking the ball-playing/destructive runner role like normal.

Paul Gallen every single day of the week.

Except when an extra Pivot with defensive prowess is needed then a Sean O'Loughlin type

Or Kevin Sinfield when you want pin back a defence with world class kicking game and a great rugby brain.

Or just have Hanley there

1 day Joe Westerman at his very best, taking the game seriously, might make a decent out & out 13.


As for Cas, we'll either use 13 as an extra prop, this year Millo may play there.

I think that's the problem in the modern game, coaches don't seem to know what an out and out 13 is.

6ft 2 ins, 17 stone, 100 metres in 10.5 sec, top quality tackler, decent step (on either foot), sublime passing skills, reads the game.
That should cover it but, the reality is that we have to make do with a player that has some of these attributes that best suits the other players in the team.

Most have a ball playing forward that will tackle.

I think we've all seen enough of Westerman to know that him taking the game seriously and playing at his very best, would be the best 13 in this country by a long way. Upto now hasn't fulfilled his potential

Because there is no such thing as an "out and out 13". It depends entirely on the balance of your side and how you use your half-backs, full-back and second rowers.

About the only pre-requisite is that they should be able to defend in the middle third, all else is about where they slot into the team pattern.

the out-and-out loose forward has died, as most sides have moved the extra ball handling role to the fullback, while the average hooker has also become faster and more manouverable, the end result being sides can benefit more from an extra hard-running forward than a a fifth ball player.

O'Loughlin, Wilkin and Westerman are just about the only ball playing loose forwards left in top level super league, and so by default, they're the best in that mould.

In terms of the big tackling loose forward, Leeds have three-Ablett, Bailey and Clarkson. Warrington have Harrison, Hull KR have Lovegrove & Catalans have Baitieri. Of those, Baitieri & Harrison are the best looses that aren't mostly used elsewhere.