Watching 'Boots n' all' on the telly today and the thing that hit me (apart from the fact Barry McDermott is a pretty poor presenter) is how few paying spectators actually seem to turn up to the majority of SL fixtures. This has got to hit the clubs in the pocket pretty hard? How the hell do they pay their players whilst balancing the books? I don't know what your average RL player is on a year but it's not too bad a bad wage I'm sure.

If it wasn't for Sky Sports and their cash would professional RL fold?


I was never really a fan of the game before the SL days (I don't live in an area where the sport is played) so I don't know how it was before the game was restructured in '96 or whenever it was.

Did many clubs go under in the days before superleague? Have crowds fallen or gone up since it started?

I seriously can't see how the game can be successful when it's only really played in the north of England (apart from minor interest in Wrexham, London and the South of France) hardly anyone turns up to watch it, a lot of the 'big names' are old and/or past it Aussies and the international side havent won anything since 1972.

This isn't a 'trolling' post.

What would happen if Sky pulled out?

Thank heavens for Wigan / Leeds & Hull.

If Sky pulled out the sport would have to go back to being semi pro, like the conference levels of English football.

I think even under those circumstances and with all the major talent poached to Union, SL would still average 5 or 6,000 people instead of 9 thousand odd. I doubt many clubs would go but most wouldn't be able to spend much on players.

Why am I struggling to believe that?

So what was it like before the 'Superleague'?

Were crowds bigger than they are now?


Were games routinely televised... or if you wanted to watch RL would it mean you had to go along to a game?

Soccer was in the same boat till Sky came along, dont forget that...in fact all pro sports would die without Sky. Even the premier league...

Professional sports wouldn’t die without Sky/live TV contracts although there would be a period of pain, eventually the commercials would return back to previous forms and players wages would be paid through gate returns and local sponsorship

There would still be lots of people wanting to play professional football while not being paid £200k a week

Crowds 'back in the day' were much bigger. We're talking pre WW2 though. In the 80s and 90s which are the earliest memories I have of the game teams were semi professional. I can remember Alan Hunte, former St Helens and Great Britain centre/winger fitting blinds at my Gran's house on the day of Saints playing Wigan in a big game. All clubs apart from Wigan and Leeds couldn't pay their players a great deal so a lot had full time jobs as well as the rugby. The standards were obviously reduced because of this and in the late 80s and early 90s Wigan went crazy and mortgaged their souls on winning everything by buying every player that had a pulse. Their 'glory' era ruined the sport for a decade or so as there wasn't a proper competition. It was like having the NRL made up of the double-books Storm and the Jim Beam Cup level teams. Crowds were averaging around 7,000 or so I believe and have reached around 10,000 with Super League.

Games were televised on the BBC, particularly the Challenge Cup which has been on the BBC since I can remember. They also televised the league games on various channels and even had a 'BBC floodlit trophy' in the 70s and 80s I think.

Generally RL exists on the generosity of the club owners , tipping between a few thousand ( Championship one ) and a million ( Quins and a couple of others ) every year

One of the main aims of the RFL should be to do all it can to help all clubs become self sustaining at current max salary cap levels , with any extra monies supplied by the owners going into junior development and infrastructure investement , rather than just treading water

So did the BBC show a live fixture on a Friday or Saturday like Sky do?

I'd have said that even in the 60,70 and early 80 s gates were overall bigger , ie more evened out between all the clubs rather than just 2/3 as we seem to have now

I don't recall the actual league games being televised , more the knock out cup games of the county cups and JP and Challenge cup

Challenge Cup games were on a Saturday from what I can remember. I'm sure the older members can tell you if the league games were televised.

I can remember reading a Parliamentary report about the demise of rugby league which showed that pre-Super League the sport enjoyed viewing percentages of around 33% for televised games (33% of the total viewing public in the UK in the timeslot they were on) but since SL has been on Sky the sport gets only 1-3% of the viewing public which is obviously disastrous for promoting the game.

No , generally Saturday afternoon was ' rugby ' day , being either union internationals ( RL as well when we had a touring team ) or the RL cup matches , I remember well playing footy on Saturday mornings then spending Saturday afternoons watching rugby of one type or another on my grandparents ' new ' colour Telly

Oh yes league games were regular Grandstand fare and guess which team were on the most?








































Leeds

Simply because they had undersoil heating and no matter what they could always get a game on.

RL was a big "draw" then simply because you had either Grandstand or World of "Sport"

Too many clubs were "scared" of the telly and it showed, and to a point still does.

They had the most powerful media on the planet at their fingertips and blew it big time, but then that's how RL has always been in this country.

There were more cup competitions then - Lancashire & Yorkshire Cups, mid-season John Player Trophy, Challenge Cup, and for a while the BBC3 Floodlit Trophy. There was greater tv exposure, but the game itself was of a much lower standard than it is today (semi pro players, winter conditions, far less understanding of S&C coaching, far less structured and tactical analysis). That said, it was still comparably better and more demanding than other sports. There was little or no revenue from tv, except in the associated (cigarettes and alcohol) sponsorship.

The game now is far bigger financially. In common with other sports, its revenues are raised through selling of tv rights and major sponsorship (through the governing body and its associated companies), with income through the turnstyles a proportionally smaller percentage of the turnover of the clubs.

The game has also expanded nationally. The Student game is national and competitive (four of its 'Super 8' elite league teams are from non-traditional areas, London, Gloucester, Loughborough and Northumbria). The summer RL Conference pyramid has teams in Nottingham, St Albans, Coventry, Hemel Hempstead in its National division, and regional divisions across the whole of Great Britain. There are RL staff in every part of the British Isles now, plus regular home-nations plus France international competitions and bi-annual 'Four Nations' events in Europe (alternately staged down under).

As well as the home nations, there are (amateur) domestic leagues in several European and Mediterranean/Arabic nations, and (tiered) international competitions including countries like Germany, the Czech Republic, Serbia, Norway, Lebanon, Italy and others.

Yes we know Joe , but the O/ P was referring to the semi pro / pro game specifically , so how does it survive ?

And if people were in any doubt that this wasn't Barry MacKenzie, they are not now.

Speaking for my club, our crowds are bigger now than when we where the best club in the world back in the early 80's. Bigger crowds, more regular TV viewers and more money in the game. More kids playing the game and generally a much more cohesive and better run RFL. I'm not sure why you think its worse or are you really just trolling?

The one area we have gone backwards is in the International games profile.

In regards to income, if clubs can draw 8,000 avg crowd then in theory they should be able to have an income in access of 3million pound. That should be enough for the salary cap and running costs per year.

there were more cup competitions as a poster has said, to keep a cashflow going and this helped a lot of smaller clubs if they drew a big side at home for instance, i can remember a lot of teams praying for a home draw with hull in the early 80s and i'm sure it was similar for wigan in the early 90s. the downside was more games packed into the season, i can remember regular wednesday night games at hull. also touring sides played lots of games against the clubs as well as the test matches.

also i think the 7000 average before superleague started is a bit high, thought it would have crept lower then this in the late 80s / early 90s

....you feel the need to differentiate now then do you




The game would go back to being a part time sport, with a few clubs folding immediately and others going close. But at least the RFL would get their wish of fewer Australians playing in SL



As for the 70's and attendances....what was the difference between the price of a pint and a ticket to watch say Widnes v Wigan? I reckon it was a lot cheaper to get into the game back then.....there was less to do (TV's weren't found in every room in the house and there were 3 channels with one of them only switching on in the evening) and soccer was an excuse for fans to settle scores...either on the terraces or nearby and either with other fans or with the old bill, so it wasn't as "appealing" as it is now.

Crowds are way higher than they were in the late 70s-mid 80s. The first year I watched Leeds (81-82) the average was something like 5.5k, and it had been around that mark for some time. Leeds were by no means the worst supported club either - Hull were about the only club pulling 'big' crowds (>10k).

and, iirc, over 14,000 for a second division game against hunslet circa 1979

The crowds were more evened out , your leigh's,Fax's,FevsWidnes,Keighleys were all getting much more then , more in some instances than current SL clubs

Overall it was probably similar

add professional cricket to the list - it would have died years ago - as it is,it's hanging on.....

GOODNIGHT VIENNA PRO RL

mind you,on the plus side that would be the last of Stevo & Dame Eddie............