=#8000FF...apparently news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 509461.stm Most of that is pretty rubbish, why does the league need them other then "expansion"? they lose masses of money, playing in an empty stadium and this year look and incredibly poor team. If they use the criteria for franchising they told the fans about would Quins get a new franchise seems they wont have: Turnover of 4m+ 40% full stadium Top 8 finish average etc Now before the Quins fans come and mention the youth development, yes that is going well now, but it's alright people playing the game but why don't they go watch Quins or the Skolars?

=#8000FF...apparently news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 509461.stm Most of that is pretty rubbish, why does the league need them other then "expansion"? they lose masses of money, playing in an empty stadium and this year look and incredibly poor team. If they use the criteria for franchising they told the fans about would Quins get a new franchise seems they wont have: Turnover of 4m+ 40% full stadium Top 8 finish average etc Now before the Quins fans come and mention the youth development, yes that is going well now, but it's alright people playing the game but why don't they go watch Quins or the Skolars?

The majority of people in London don't know that Harlequins Rugby League exist.

HRL play in a uniopn stronghold, with the majority of union supporters blinkered into hating league as a isation of their sport.

It'll take about 10 years of staying in one place before league takes off in London. At least.

=#8000FFWhat sort of advertising campaign would it take to get people to actually hear about the club? and do you think playing under the Quins name hinders the team in gathering support in any way?

Quote ="Gaslight"=#8000FF...apparently news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 509461.stm Most of that is pretty rubbish, why does the league need them other then "expansion"? they lose masses of money, playing in an empty stadium and this year look and incredibly poor team. If they use the criteria for franchising they told the fans about would Quins get a new franchise seems they wont have: Turnover of 4m+ 40% full stadium Top 8 finish average etc Now before the Quins fans come and mention the youth development, yes that is going well now, but it's alright people playing the game but why don't they go watch Quins or the Skolars?'" They are needed to provide an RL presence in the only place that the media give a toss about. Even without the turnover of £4m, 40% full stadium and top 8 average they still score a B license on the criteria from last time. If my maths are correct they have averaged a position of 10th from their last 3 seasons, which is the same as Cas and Salford for their last 3 seasons in SL, and only slightly worse than Hull FC who averaged 9th.

Quote ="Gaslight"=#8000FF...apparently news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 509461.stm Most of that is pretty rubbish, why does the league need them other then "expansion"? they lose masses of money, playing in an empty stadium and this year look and incredibly poor team. If they use the criteria for franchising they told the fans about would Quins get a new franchise seems they wont have: Turnover of 4m+ 40% full stadium Top 8 finish average etc Now before the Quins fans come and mention the youth development, yes that is going well now, but it's alright people playing the game but why don't they go watch Quins or the Skolars?'" They are needed to provide an RL presence in the only place that the media give a toss about. Even without the turnover of £4m, 40% full stadium and top 8 average they still score a B license on the criteria from last time. If my maths are correct they have averaged a position of 10th from their last 3 seasons, which is the same as Cas and Salford for their last 3 seasons in SL, and only slightly worse than Hull FC who averaged 9th.

This is only my opinion:

The teams name should have London in it.

Being Quins does cause confusion, but it has pluses and negatives.

The club does not have the budget to launch any kind of reasonable marketing or advertising.

The club's nomadic existence and name changing doesn't help.

I believe that this is the best chance for London based super league. It'll just take time and no movement.

Yep, it'll take a long term effort but Quins seem to be doing the right thing by getting into the schools in London.
RL across the country has and is suffering now because RL wasn't played in enough schools a decade or so ago.

That's why it's going to take 10 years or a generation. The kids in school have to grow up with it.

London Skolars are more important to the future of London RL in my opinion: better location, better name, if they can improve on the field performance, in 10 years they'll be London's RL standard bearer.

Quins are important, but they really need some stability from which to grow their crowds. The youth development is outstanding, and that reason alone is what should keep them in SL.

=#8040FFOn that reason alone is also why Cas & Wakey shouldn't be booted out too.

I suppose looking at it from a different perspective, if Trinity or Cas were booted out, the youngsters that would've been recruited by these two club would find there way to Leeds, Bradford, Huddersfield or even Hull where as if Quins went the youngsters would have nowhere to go but Union.

I agree, and that was my point. However, the Cas/Wakefield district produces a wealth of talent on its own, as does Hull, and Leeds, and Bradford - Yorkshire produces significantly more players than London, and those players need the proportional number of teams to get to the highest level.

Where they would dominate the backs...

Take a closer look at some of the representative sides picked at schools and youth levels these days and there is a strong representation of kids from non-traditional areas who are there on merit.

If there was no SL side in London, would the RFL have put the same level of resources into youth development in the area and getting these kids interested in the game?

I don't think the whole "QUINS" THING HAS WORKED. tHEY HAVE LOST THEIR IDENTITY AS A lONDON CLUB AND THE HOPED FOR ATTRACTION FOR RU qUINS FANS to cross over and support RL hasn't happened.

Short of the RFL boosting their grant by a million quid a year so they can run a concerted PR campaign or getting in some marketing gooru I can't see much changing for them. How they survive on the crowds they get amazes me.

Sounds like Lewis is sweating now he has said a side will be relegated and everyone is looking down Sth at the worse performing club in the comp!

Quins are performing badly at the moment because we've got most of our best players out and we have a thin squad.

Quote ="Gaslight"=#8000FF...apparently news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 509461.stm Most of that is pretty rubbish, why does the league need them other then "expansion"? '" Expansion is reason enough all by itself. Without expansion, RL would be a small-time, regional game lacking any national resonance whatsoever and wouldn't deserve to be covered by the national media or shown on conventional broadcast TV. With only 3 of 14 SL clubs outside the north, the game still has some way to go to deserve the spotlight most of us want it to have. I don't envy Richard Lewis trying to convince the government to shelve the recommendation to de-list the Challenge Cup.

Quote ="Gaslight"=#8000FF...apparently news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 509461.stm Most of that is pretty rubbish, why does the league need them other then "expansion"? '" Expansion is reason enough all by itself. Without expansion, RL would be a small-time, regional game lacking any national resonance whatsoever and wouldn't deserve to be covered by the national media or shown on conventional broadcast TV. With only 3 of 14 SL clubs outside the north, the game still has some way to go to deserve the spotlight most of us want it to have. I don't envy Richard Lewis trying to convince the government to shelve the recommendation to de-list the Challenge Cup.

Is it though? RL is a small-time, regional game lacking any national resonance whatsoever and isn't covered by the national media or shown on conventional broadcast TV. RL is all those things and a small presence in London does not transform RL into some kind of nation spanning colossus.

Is the presence in London vital to the Sky contract, does anyone really know or are you just presenting theories? As far as Quins are concerned I think they should be given as much help as they need to becomes sustainable, along with other clubs but I'm not convinved that they are as important as some here make out, other than they are members of the RL family and we want everyone in that family to prosper.

Curling gets a fair amount of national tv coverage and that is very much a regional sport. Ski Sunday gets aired nationwide and that does not even cover a regional sport in the UK it's all foreign, but that doesn't seem to be a problem.

I reckon there is a more even spread of Brits who going skiing, than there is spread of people who watch/play RL.

The importance to the Sky contract may be over egged, but their importance to the game overall is not.

The London club, in whatever guise, is an outlet where the young players in London who play League can target as a realistic opportunity of developing a career. Without that top flight club in their region there is the potential they will be lost to the game or choose to take up Union.

With RL needing a larger base of home produced players, to bolster the domestic League and also the International sides, can the sport afford to abandon such a potentially large player pool that’s available in the South East.

They should be given help to aid with the promotion of the club. If it’s up front and transparent then I’m sure many fans of the traditional clubs would accept that.

I reckon there's a more even spread for people who take part in match fishing, but that doesn't get a highlights programme on BBC.

I never suggested that a small presence in London transformed RL into some kind of nation spanning colossus. What I did say was, "With only 3 of 14 SL clubs outside the north, the game still has some way to go to deserve the spotlight most of us want it to have." In short the game needs more expansion, not less. It's entirely conceivable that 3 out of 14 won't be enough to stop the Challenge Cup de-listing going ahead. 1 or 0 out of 12 would be a no-brainer.

The presence in London was a condition of the first SL contract with Sky, in a real sense they were the first franchised club. Some believe that requirement's been dropped, but it's hard to imagine that Sky would pay as much for the rights as now without it.

It's interesting you mentioned curling and skiing getting more coverage. They might be small in the UK but they're both bigger internationally than than RL: neither one relies on tiny island nations with heritage players to make their international competitions look better. They're both in the Olympics too.

Sky bought it all, didn't they?

I think the issue here is development of the game, which certainly should be supported in the South East. I think that the problems in that area are not related to providing a career for the elite few players but more having enough amateur and junior clubs for the vast majority of players. There is a huge amount of work going into schools in that area, but I had a discussion a few weeks ago with someone on here (apologies can't remember the name) who was concerned that the effort he was doing in his school would produce rewards for the local RU club, that had very recently sent in a coach to work with the kids. I said he should get kids signed up to his local RL club youth section, his reply was there wasn't one.

Now if that is the case then really what is the point, kids want to play games and they will pretty much stick with the first club they go to and they will be RL for life. If there are not enough youth teams to join then all of that work is a waste of time. Elite players will find a way to the top, they will be scouted by other clubs or move up North which is all of two hours away.

So, I'm not even convinced that Quins are vital for player development. This is not a downer on Quins as I said before I would like to see them thrive but in response to the OP I don't really see that they are in any way more important than any other team in SL.

I couldn't tell you.

The importance that Lewis attaches to a SL presence in the capital is quite correct, I'm just not sure that quins are the ideal 'set-up' to fulfil the requirements.

To promote a sport that has never been particularly popular down there is a losing (but definitely necessary) battle in the first place, but IMHO there's simply too many obstacles standing in Quin's way.

For starters not only are they based in deepest darkest union territory, but to position them on the doorstep of their national stadium in a community steeped in union history, is just bizarre. If the idea behind that is to attract union fans to our code, why adopt the name, ground and colours of a famous union club and instantly alienate any potential support from their rivals??

Also I'm not convinced a 'leafy suburb' which is a good half hour away on the train from central london, is the best place to base London's only professional SL club.

I do understand that there is a certain amount of stability gained by the club from being involved with Harlequins, and I also agree with previous posters who have said that the constant name changing and ground moving makes it impossible to get a foothold, but if the RFL are serious about having a well-supported SL club down there, they need to make sure every detail is geared towards attracting support, and quins just isn't.