Do you mean 2008 World Cup? Or 2009 Four Nations?

We were really poor in 2008 but Tony Smith just couldn't get the team to work. Some very strong players mainly from Leeds and Saints but they just didn't gel. Paul Sykes got a game too so not the best quality



In 2009 we went quite close, I think 6 points in it with 15 mins left but then Australia scored 4 tries. With an Aussie ref and some immortal players in their absolute prime - Slater, Inglis, Hayne, Lockyer, Thurston, Smith, Civoniceva, Gallen - it would've taken an incredible team to beat them and we still had players like Peter Fox, Chris Bridge, Eorl Crabtree in there. I don't think it was just because we couldn't wrestle.

Big off field issues in 2008 between Leeds and Saints players

Yes, 2008.

I remember one of the main excuses banded about at the time of England's world cup performance was the ruck in SL was too quick and there was too much 'scooting' which meant they struggled to create anything when they came up against the slower rucks generated by Aus/NZ (although the standard of backs we had available at the time was pretty awful). We saw an almost immediate shift in what refs would all defenses to get away with at the play the ball, and it's been getting messier ever since.

Yeah I think you are probably right there. No coincidence it was the year after James Roby won MOS pretty much by being an impact scooting sub.

Also there were a lot of big clubs in transition. We were really not that great and still weren't far off beating Leeds in the SF. But all the decent players we had were Aussies/Kiwis. Bradford were already a shadow of their former selves. Hull had one of their worst seasons ever. Warrington were still crap and sacked Cullen.

Whats killed or killing RL in my opinion is the emphasis on defense and structure that the modern game is all about .Gone are the free style rugby which we saw now a days its playing to structure not seeing the players ability to change a game example Gregory and Edwards did there own thing .The game is for me too structured and no flair about it .