Just out of curiousty and knowing we have some very astute record keepers in our midst, can anyone tell me how many combinations we have had at 1,6,7 and 9 this year and whether there has been more than 2 games in a row where we have had the same 4 players in those positions?

Half back combinations I can think of this year:

Pryce & Keyes
Keyes & Thomas
Keyes & Lilley
Lilley & Chisholm
Pryce & Lilley

No consistency in the most important area of the field. Another reason we've been battered all season.

We must be approaching a full decade without having a settled spine to our team, and I'd doubt we've had a combination at 6, 7, and 9 in that time that's actually played a full season together - coinciding nicely with our slide down the league's.

It ain't rocket science is it!

You forgot Keyes and Aston from the past few weeks and Keyes and Smith from the London game away.

Butterworth and Keyes against Halifax

For 1,6,7,9...

Purely from starting lineups and not taking into account subs and injuries during the game, and taking 6 and 7 as essentially the same position regardless of how announced:

Thomas, Pryce, Keyes, Moore = 3
Campbell, Lilley, Keyes, Moore = 2
Smith, Aston, Keyes, Moore = 2
Thomas, Lilley, Keyes, Moore = 2
Thomas, Pryce, Lilley, Lumb = 2
Thomas, Pryce, Lilley, Moore = 2
Campbell, Pryce, Keyes, Lumb = 1
Campbell, Thomas, Keyes, Moore = 1
Mendeika, Pryce, Thomas, Moore = 1
Pickersgill, Aston, Keyes, Moore = 1
Pickersgill, Thomas, Lilley, Moore = 1
Smith, Thomas, Aston, Moore = 1
Thomas, Aston, Keyes, Moore = 1
Thomas, Aston, Keyes, Hallas = 1
Thomas, Keyes, Butterworth, Hallas = 1
Thomas, Lilley, Keyes, Hallas = 1
Thomas, Lilley, Chisholm, Hallas = 1
Thomas, Pryce, Lilley, Hallas = 1
Thomas, Pryce, Smith, Moore = 1
Thomas, Smith, Keyes, Moore = 1


The last time we had the same combo two weeks on the trot was rounds 18 & 19. Only one combo has played the same 3 games.


(Updated on 20th August)

Thanks for that DILLIGAF.
As I thought it would this really explains much of the organisational issues on the field.
Good to see the concrete numbers

I quite like my stats (as Pete on BCB very kindly quotes me as their "regular statistician"icon_wink.gif but it's not something I'd thought to look up until you mentioned it. Quite surprising though, and I'm reliably informed Mr. Toovey bemoans the lack of a consistent team as one of the obstacles he has had to face, and you can see what he means from that.

I suppose the naiive questions looking at these interesting pieces of info, are: What was the pattern of the pivotal roles for the 6 games we've managed to win? Was there any reward for consistency? Yes, the team has been changed around all season long, but I wonder what the strongest starting line up would be for the final games of this sad season - of the players remaining and fit ! AND are they actually good enough to help win the matches remaining?

19 different combinations. No wonder we've struggled.

Add to that Lilley who as a loan player will have spent a lot of time training at Leeds rather than with his Bulls teammates.

Round 3 (vs. Swinton) - Thomas, Pryce, Keyes, Moore
Round 4 (vs. Toulouse) - Thomas, Pryce, Lilley, Moore

Round 6 (vs. Batley) - Thomas, Pryce, Smith, Moore
Round 7 (vs. Dewsbury) - Campbell, Lilley, Keyes, Hallas

Round 9 (vs. Sheffield) - Thomas, Pryce, Lilley, Moore

Round 19 (vs. Oldham) - Thomas, Lilley, Keyes, Moore

Some consistency but at the same time it coincides with the pack. Rounds 3 and 4 were Larroyer's first two games which freed up Roche to prop and Kirk to the bench. Round 4 was Dan Murray's first game for us which allowed him to take Halafihi's place on the bench, further strengthening us.

Just for the purpose of stats;

Has anyone calculated Beatties win rate versus Tooveys for the Bulls (albeit Toovey may have had more than a say in things when Beattie was playing front man)

Beattie was never in charge, so it's a pointless stat. He was only the "head coach" for the purposes of not being done for Visa breaches.

Allegedly (there, that should cover me....)

Thanks for the response Hammy, pointless, but thanks anyway

For ease, I've just counted League games (bit more time I would have counted cup games too)

Toovey in "official charge" since round 18 = 6 games (+ last week against Tools) = 7 games ; 1 win = 14% win rate

Beattie as "front man only" 17 rounds; 5 wins = 29% win rate.

So Toovey stepping into "official" role produced worse results. Maybe Beattie had more impact than we thought.
And before Hammy chirps up - yes I know Toovey was (allegedly) coaching from behind Beattie but only the players know how much Beattie actually influenced those early wins

I'm gonna chirp up anyway



Toovey was actually on the pitch during the warm ups. From a very very early time. He was the one giving the orders from the sidelines (watch the Summer Bash game back if you're unsure). He was the one taking training (see training photos around the time). There is zero difference as far as the players and team go with regards to him being in official charge and on a "holiday visa".

The point is, I don't think it's fair to suggest that it's been worse "since he took over officially" from your stat. He took over officially at the start of the season, regardless of what was reported in public and to the visa folks. If you're gonna judge Toovey on his results, good or bad, you judge him from when he arrived in the country.

Hope none of the bods from the Border Agency read these forums.....

Never mind them, who was this lady at the top of the banking on Sunday?

Nigel Wood observing his pet club© in fancy dress?

Yep you're right Hammy, I was just trying to see if I could find some reason for us being so feckin shoite this season - we've tried blaming Green, Nige, Bulls players, previous admin, RFL, -12, other clubs, Admin 1,2,3 etc - I think the only ones we cant blame are ourselves the fans, unless you count not buying beer in the ground as a potential cause of our shoitness

I don't think there's a sane thing left in the world that we haven't already blamed, so I'm going back to the old favourite of Iestyn Harris again. That's the blame that keeps on blaming.

Personally I believe that had the ref given the Joynt voluntary tackle the whole course of history would be different.

And Withers was never a knock on.....

The thing about that one was that even if he did get his finger nails to it (which I will deny 'til the end of time) the ball still went backwards relative to his hands and on to Pryce so wasn't even a knock on.

And Jordan Pansy was definitely feckin offside